Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread III]

[Pitboss Korea]

I would agree with your LOGICAL reading of that rule, the semantics on the first sentence in the rule are a little confusing, but that may be a language issue more than anything.

[Rasputin]

Originally posted by Pitboss Maya
Raz, I don't want to jump on the "bash raz for quitting" bandwagon, but the bottom line is your civ had a score in the middle of the pack. For someone who "plays for the fun of it" and says they "are not that good at civ" I would think you would be happy with your progress. There are 9 civs ranked below you... should they quit too? YOU WERE DOING BETTER THAN HALF THE PLAYERS IN THIS GAME!

Last time I checked, you were in the TOP 5 for voting points!

And the argument that there are no wars is quite ironic considering what is about to go down.

.

But my score in game is onyl becuae of my aggresive chasing of Techs from others.

But regardless of that, my whole point was that i wasnt leaving becauase of my poorr position . i left the game becasue i was nto enjoying the inactivity. The moment i tried t omake actions or something to do it ws shut down by restrictions palced on me , all good dipl ostuff and so forth but it jsut meant i was consigned to buidling buidling buidling., it is boring in pitboss doing jsut that. well it is to me.

I wasnt palying to win, i wanted to do well , but i ws playing to have fun and jsut logging in for a minute simply tpo update my city buidl queue ws not fun.

[Pitboss Celts]

Cyber, please request a peace treaty from vikings to celts again. I did not accept initially because I wanted to see what the hell was going on.

[Pitboss Celts]

Originally posted by Pitboss Vikings
WHY:: becasue this game just wasnt going anywhere for me, yes i i suck at civ but in previous diplo games it didnt matter your ability to play it was still fun and interactive for any player.

This game is just a build build build game.

As for my cities, i have harvested and utilised all of the resources in my part of the world aprat from one corn field in the east.

If my civ is in such a great place then it truly shows how bad i am. I had the portugee look at my civ and he was reasonably happy with what i had done.

Reason for soldiers and there are not that many, is to stop the bloody barbarain invasions.

i had a plan for minimum of two defendersd per city with a roving crew of 5-8 attackers.

But anyway when my only hope for some fun in roman war became obvious that it was point less i lost all interest in this game, and if you had follwoed the posts in the stories you would be aware that i had declared war on the world one by one as people removed their support for the war. so it was all done diplo style.

Finally the gods came to earth and removed the Oldonian leadereship and handed the citys to the japanese.

Raz, this ices the cake. You've been whining and crying like a baby the whole game and now you've thrown a full-blown tantrum.

I don't really care that you quit the game. If you aren't having fun, it is certainly acceptible to move on. I think you went about in the worst way possible. Let us know you want to bow out and we can find a replacement and keep the integrity of the game.

By the way, I went through the story post for November and saw not one mention of any declaration of war against me. How can you even declare war on someone you haven't met yet.

[Pitboss Russia]

well frankly, I understand him. this game is not very interesting for the majority of players. and partly I blame pinchaks map for that. it is just completely imbalanced.

Portugal just got liberalism and is colonizing a new continent, while I recently had to get feudalism as a gift. and before anyone says "learn to play" I will unlike Raz say that I know exactly how this game works. I just got seriously shortchanged in the land department. in order to develop a civ needs production and there is practically none in my lands. with a small number of exceptions and even in those cases there is no food to allow me to utilize it. and even if it in itself isnt hopeless, compared to my neighbours I could just as well be stuck on antartica.

and the game is not interesting to me, there's no way I will ever be able to compete for anything other than a second to last spot. the only reason I'm playing is cause I'm not a quitter. but in time there's no point in continuing and I'll just hand over my cities to someone else and move on. like raz did.

[Pitboss Greece]

All diplo games I have been in have been like this.
Some are very advanced, others are behind.

For future games I'd say that we should ban Portugal if there's a "new world" to settle/discover.
The advantage of the Portuguese Carrack is too much in this area. It's ok for sp but to much for mp.

But any game will always have advanced civs and behind civs. And skills, land and circumstances are responsible for that.

In games like this I think that the smaller civs should work together more. Rome ie. is a treat (I say this OOC!) but Russia, Vikings and Wyandots have never worked together to counter this problem. Bigger civs can be contained by multiple smaller civs. But what happens is that all the smaller civs only care for themselves. And when there's a war nobody wants to work together.

I'm one of the bigger civs, so I'm fine that my attempt to boycot Rome didn't work. But I don't get why al those smaller civs didn't jump upon the bandwagon.

Most smaller civs are in one big builder game. They never tried to make things interesting. I have been a small civ in diplogames many times, but I've never been that passive!

But one thing is true, the distances are too big.
I am really figuring out a way to go to Rome, but that is almost impossible!
When my phalanxes arrive they will encounter riflemen!

What would be really good for this game is if the Portuguese and the Khmer would abandon their builders-paradise game.

The civs on the other continent should all gang up on the khmer!
And why is Portugal letting Rome have it's way? Rome even stole 2 cities from Portugal for crying out loud! There are many reasons to go to war! Help the RUssians. There is a good story overthere!
France and Germany have always made war, it was only after WWII that they finally tried to get along.

But you guys are there next to each other only being big and friends to each other!
Kick some ass!

And wyandots, why not help your neighbours the vikings and the far away russians? They are like you? Why lock yourself up in your builder game?

And Maya and Korea, why not work together? C'mon, kick Sparta's ass! Give it a try!

And Vikings: please stop about those barbarians. Sparta had never problems with barbarians because I countered them in the right way. I never got votes for that, but my barbarian countering techniques rocked them all away. I had plenty of fog area as well, an entire land bridge and space on all my sides. Of course they ganged up on you, but that's not a game or map fault! It's because you need to learn how to counter them.
I think that Portugal is in the same position as you, but they never had problems. (or at least never complained about it)

Anyway: guys, move this game away from this Multi Single Player experience.
Make some fun! Stab some backs, gang up on the biggies, create a war! Go Maya! Go you for attacking Portugal! Of course Sparta condemns it, but Go you!

Let's make this game fun!
War is goooooood! Let the women and the widows cry! Soldiers should die! It's not the 20th century yet!

Some of you act as if we're all civilized! Bwhah! We're in the dark ages! If your neighbours has a different religion, crush HIM!
Stupid heathen!

Rome talking about pillaged terrain? Bwhah! There's no Geneve yet! There are only war criminals! We love it being a war criminal! GO GO GO GO GO GO!

anyway, that's about it.

al have fun!

Peace!

[Pitboss Greece]

All diplo games I have been in have been like this.
Some are very advanced, others are behind.

For future games I'd say that we should ban Portugal if there's a "new world" to settle/discover.
The advantage of the Portuguese Carrack is too much in this area. It's ok for sp but to much for mp.

But any game will always have advanced civs and behind civs. And skills, land and circumstances are responsible for that.

In games like this I think that the smaller civs should work together more. Rome ie. is a treat (I say this OOC!) but Russia, Vikings and Wyandots have never worked together to counter this problem. Bigger civs can be contained by multiple smaller civs. But what happens is that all the smaller civs only care for themselves. And when there's a war nobody wants to work together.

I'm one of the bigger civs, so I'm fine that my attempt to boycot Rome didn't work. But I don't get why al those smaller civs didn't jump upon the bandwagon.

Most smaller civs are in one big builder game. They never tried to make things interesting. I have been a small civ in diplogames many times, but I've never been that passive!

But one thing is true, the distances are too big.
I am really figuring out a way to go to Rome, but that is almost impossible!
When my phalanxes arrive they will encounter riflemen!

What would be really good for this game is if the Portuguese and the Khmer would abandon their builders-paradise game.

The civs on the other continent should all gang up on the khmer!
And why is Portugal letting Rome have it's way? Rome even stole 2 cities from Portugal for crying out loud! There are many reasons to go to war! Help the RUssians. There is a good story overthere!
France and Germany have always made war, it was only after WWII that they finally tried to get along.

But you guys are there next to each other only being big and friends to each other!
Kick some ass!

And wyandots, why not help your neighbours the vikings and the far away russians? They are like you? Why lock yourself up in your builder game?

And Maya and Korea, why not work together? C'mon, kick Sparta's ass! Give it a try!

And Vikings: please stop about those barbarians. Sparta had never problems with barbarians because I countered them in the right way. I never got votes for that, but my barbarian countering techniques rocked them all away. I had plenty of fog area as well, an entire land bridge and space on all my sides. Of course they ganged up on you, but that's not a game or map fault! It's because you need to learn how to counter them.
I think that Portugal is in the same position as you, but they never had problems. (or at least never complained about it)

Anyway: guys, move this game away from this Multi Single Player experience.
Make some fun! Stab some backs, gang up on the biggies, create a war! Go Maya! Go you for attacking Portugal! Of course Sparta condemns it, but Go you!

Let's make this game fun!
War is goooooood! Let the women and the widows cry! Soldiers should die! It's not the 20th century yet!

Some of you act as if we're all civilized! Bwhah! We're in the dark ages! If your neighbours has a different religion, crush HIM!
Stupid heathen!

Rome talking about pillaged terrain? Bwhah! There's no Geneve yet! There are only war criminals! We love it being a war criminal! GO GO GO GO GO GO!

anyway, that's about it.

al have fun!

Peace!

[Pitboss Rome]

As always OOC(!) I agree with most of what Sparta says.

I tend to believe that I ought to keep out of these conversations because (1) I'm a latecomer to your game and (2) I was fortuneate enough to inherit a good situation (though horribly overstretched, you wouldn't believe how many of the Roman cities had no defenders - fortuneately Pierica and Portugal signed non-aggrression treaties, we would have collapsed very quickly in war, but not any more ).

But a few obersvations as a newbie to this game:

1. The maps is large. I don't see it as a problem, but it does affect the dynamic. There is a huge pressure in civ games to expand until there is no more room, and only then think of war. (War is dangerous, expansion is safer). We are hardly at full expansion yet, and now with, for more technologically advanced nations, astronomy not far away, there is another phase of peaceful expansion possible. This number of civs on a map this big I would have thought is very likely to lead to a peaceful earlier game, and then major wars in the industrial and modern era. (When the Spartans can reach Rome!). I think the map is cleverly put together with lots of 'almost' city sites - just too much grass, just too much desert/flood plains, just too much hills - and great natural barriers and borders. But it size means that serious war will come later.

2. I have been surprised by the peacefulness of everyone. Perhaps this is turning at the moment, but I am not sure. This is where Sparta is so right. Its almost as if people think that there is a moral bad about war. When I started I thought half the nations at least would have (in character in game) the attitude 'if you are not strong enough to hold your territory you deserve to lose it'. That is what many of our ancient and medieval counterparts would have thought. My guess is that because you folks have been playing for so long, there is a breakdown of the in character and out of character distinction, and OOC we all genuinely want each other to have an enjoyable game and for the game to be fair, and this creeps into our in character play.

3. I think the Sparta's comments about Portuguese carracks are a little unfair. I understand the point, though if the Portuguese try to seize too much new world their economy will collapse, particularly with colony payments. All nations have UU - the Portuguese have just been very good at making the most of theirs. Rome did so too, long before I took over, in waging war at the moment when its Praetorians were king (as soon as the Portuguese got crossbow we had to stop). And people can stop the Portuguese expansion - but at the moment they can't do that by out-expanding them, they would have to do it by war. Which is what most are nervous about, but the Maya have gone for. The Portuguese lost out to Rome and Piercia in the era when both had their UU; now is the brief era of their advantage. In real life the Portuguese did have a great brief period in the age of exploration, but the it didn't last once the British and French empires got going and overtook them.

[Rasputin]

Originally posted by Pitboss Celts


Raz, this ices the cake. You've been whining and crying like a baby the whole game and now you've thrown a full-blown tantrum.

I don't really care that you quit the game. If you aren't having fun, it is certainly acceptible to move on. I think you went about in the worst way possible. Let us know you want to bow out and we can find a replacement and keep the integrity of the game.

By the way, I went through the story post for November and saw not one mention of any declaration of war against me. How can you even declare war on someone you haven't met yet.

umm i have met you and we had open borders too....

[Pitboss Portugal]

What would be really good for this game is if the Portuguese and the Khmer would abandon their builders-paradise game

Greece why are you so quick to forget that Portugal had already 2 wars? I like Russia had to slave half my population to repel the Romans. But the big difference is that unlike the Russ, no one came to offer help. So Portugal had its far share of wars. Even now we are at war. If you count, we have been in more wars then anyone else.

builders-paradise game

I hope you are not serious, have a look at Portugal's land please and let me know if its paradise. What builders game, Portugal just recently last 50 turns have been in good relations with Rome. Before that since the start was constatnly on war alert.

Maybe you are right about Khmer, but that is the cards we were given. Good for him that he is using his situation to the fullest. Any smart leader will do that! Why should he destroy that? It is safe there and he is doing what he does best, growing a great empire.

[Pitboss Portugal]

this game is not very interesting for the majority of players

I totally disagree with you, I see only two people complaning and that's you and Raz.

2 from 18 is not in anyway a majority.

Please do not try to put down the game.

[Pitboss Portugal]

Russia:

I personally think that you have only yourself to blame, you never were active on diplomacy in the first 200 turns. How many times did I come and tried to build something like a pact vs. the Romans. Never received a message from you in the past 150. If we have worked together things could have been much more different. It seems that you were busy in RL and that is perfectly normal, lately you have increased your diplomacy and story posts and I thank you for that. Problem is that you bet on the wrong card trusting Rome and not contacting Portugal. Even now i offered you help with expansion onto new lands like New Portugal. No reply still.

I know who you are as a player, many would love to have your skills. yes your land is poor on production, still there are ways around it.

[Pitboss Japan]

Thanks to Raz everyone who he had met has been to war with the vikings. If i'm not mistaken that brings Japan to a grand total of 2 wars maybe 3 soon who knows but Rome has been in more wars by my count not Portugal. If i'm not mistaken Rome has been in 5 or 6 wars and if they fight the Piercians that would push them to 6 or 7. So clearly Portugal has not had the most wars maybe 2nd but not 1st.

[Pitboss Portugal]

Japan:

Portugal has been in 3 wars:

1. Vs Rome
2. Vs Rome
3. vs Maya

Hmm you have a point Rome has been in 4 by my count. The point i was trying to make is that we have never been a buiders civ in this game.

And still that makes me 2nd in numbers of war from total of 18 civs. Not too bad.

[Pitboss Japan]

didn't Raz declare war on you too?