Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread II]

[The Capo]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Ok, I've rephrased it, now it works

@Vikings: I'd rather have the majority of the players. I'll push everyone to vote. But if only 5 people vote out of whom 3 people vote 'yes' then we'll have troubles as soon as we enforce it.

This is why I said to vote on the issue when we send in our normal votes. So everyone votes; like how Austria has you vote when you send in your taxes.

[The Capo]

I'd advise everyone to read the thread that discussed this because, no offense, but Cybershy isn't really going about this the way we discussed it. We determined there would be a preset rule in effect for a violation. Here is what I wrote;

1) A violation occurs when a player is at war and makes a move before 1/3rd of the playtimer has elapsed on the next turn. If the player can show that he/she did this in order to expedite the turn (for example; he/she could not play his turn otherwise and thus halt the game etc.) AND did not engage in an attack or any movement within enemy territory then under these circumstances, and only under these circumstances will it be ignored. Any other situation will be construed as a violation. They must indicate that they had to move at least two hours PRIOR to making the move in the Organization thread.

2) When a player at war takes a turn, and then moves any unit within 1/3rd of the next turn's playtimer that player has violated the "double-move" rule. Unless a player indicates they had to move in order to expedite the game they have violated this rule. No exemptions will be made (part 1 explains what they have to do in order to follow this exemption). The penalty for making a non-exempt double-move violation will be the loss of FIVE TECH VOUCHERS and 25% OF TOTAL VOTES UP TO AND INCLUDING THE MONTH THE VIOLATION OCCURED. If the player claims they had to move (as per part 1) and STILL did any of the following acts; attack an enemy unit, move a unit into enemy territory, gift a unit to an ally, perform espionage (in any capacity), move a settler or great person at all, abduct a worker, attack a great person, pilliage an improvement, bombard a city, blockade a city, make a tech trade, they are STILL in violation regardless of the exemption.

3) When a player commits a GROSS VIOLATION of this rule they will incur a loss of 10 TECH VOUCHERS and 50% OF TOTAL VOTES UP TO AND INCLUDING THE MONTH THE VIOLATION OCCURED. A gross violation occurs when two or more of the following acts occur; attack an enemy unit, move a unit into enemy territory, gift a unit to an ally, perform espionage (in any capacity), move a settler or great person at all, abduct a worker, attack a great person, pilliage an improvement, bombard a city, blockade a city, make a tech trade during a single double-move. As per the other sections the offending player must be at war and must have moved within 1/3rd of the next turn's timer. In this case a normal violation would have had to occur and the player would incur the 5 TECH VOUCHER/25% VOTE PENALTY until the majority of the group decides to increase it to 10 TECH VOUCHER/50% VOTE PENALTY. If the player in this case has no tech vouchers left, or insufficient vouchers, 10% of the vote will be taken away for each voucher in debt. This penalty will be made by group consensus based on a private ballot given at the next round of votes.

That is what I came up with in the other thread. The penalties seem harsh, but the intent is to prevent people from doing it at all.

So what do you guys think?

[MMC]

Cyber, when were you expecting to have your internet activated at the new house? If it's only a couple of weeks away, I may be able to offer my services as a temp host until then.

[Toni]

Great idea MMC

How soon can you get the game up if CS says yes?

[The Capo]

I didn't even realize the game was down.

[Pitboss Celts]

1. Do we need penalties for rule breakers? [YES]

2. Should these penalties be of a preset format? (or wait to see what the impact of the rule break is to work out a punishment?) [NO]

[Pitboss Celts]

[SIZE=1] If the player claims they had to move (as per part 1) and STILL did any of the following acts; attack an enemy unit, move a unit into enemy territory, gift a unit to an ally, perform espionage (in any capacity), move a settler or great person at all, abduct a worker, attack a great person, pilliage an improvement, bombard a city, blockade a city, make a tech trade, they are STILL in violation regardless of the exemption.

So if a player must move to keep the game going, basically they can't do anything warlike. Is the other player then given a free attack because someone was unable to take their turn after 1/3 the timer?

[Pitboss Japan]

i think it should be up to the person whether they think it to be the fair thing to do since the other player did not attack them.

[Pinchak]

So what do you guys think?

I think nobody will have any tech vouchers left after a month.

Were you stoned when you came up with this?

Keep in mind we have people among us who cannot end their turn, let alone make heads or tails of a rule that resembles the terms and conditions for a VISA card.

Not trying to be critical, but keeping this somewhat simple is key.

[Pitboss Japan]

we have been workin on ideas for days. if you have something better please let us know.

[Pitboss Greece]

1. Do we need penalties for rule breakers? [YES]

2. Should these penalties be of a preset format? [NO]

[Pinchak]

I suggest that if two countries go to war they decide between themselves if they want to have some sort of rule regarding double moves.

Otherwise, no rule.

On the other hand I will be happy to come up with a comprehensive rule if we really want to go that route, but I will not debate it with anyone. If you want my help, take what I give you at face value. I'm not going to have an elegant solution mucked up with suggestions from some nitwit(s) who's complete ignorance to how truly dumb they are compels them to interfere so they feel like they contributed.

And besides all that... I'm too tired to argue.

[Pitboss Vikings]

if the penalties are not of a preset format then you are opening the door to discrimination and subjective decisions


such as , did that double turn actually give any advantage, is the loss of a unit worse than the loss of a worker.

such things are all dependant on the situation

if you leave it to subjective analysis the game will have to be paused while we get the lawyers in to ananlyse the situatuion and make judgments

with set penalties it is easy. break the rule you do the time.

[Pinchak]

if the penalties are not of a preset format then you are opening the door to discrimination and subjective decisions

I fully agree, and as a side note, I will not recognize any penalties that are not spelled out ahead of time.

[Pitboss Vikings]

yes i think this is an issue, if you leave the penalty to be decided later someone may end up with a harsher penalty than others.

and guys set penalties needed be a one size fits all.

we can make a list of how rules are broken and give a penalty to fit

this is like real life.

for instance killing someone is against the law.

However if done in self defence then a much lower penalty than premeditated murder

accidental killing etc etc

so many ways of breaking rule with penalties to match

some suggestions

1. Accidental double move - Penalty Warning
2. double move because the opposition didnt do their turn - Warning
3. Double move but no attacks - 1 tech voucher penalty
4. Double move and pillage - 2 tech vouchers and loss of 10% of Votes
5. Double move and kill units - 3 tech vouchers and loss of 20% of Votes
6. Double move and take city - 6 Tech vouchers and loss of 50% of votes.

This penalties are just examples.