Diplogame HOTW XII Ragnarok - Story Thread

[Diplo Inca]

The only point Hollande made is that the land deficient French are entitled to fully exploit New France to obtain more LAND.

We are shocked to see how little you know of current developments on Terra. We and the French have found a common ground, which will allow for our two nations to return to normality. French have spoken and we have signed a good deal. They are a sovereign nation which doesn’t needs your pity and influence. Let them be – they have proven to be a great diplomat and Machu Picchu has much respect for them. As you were writing this outdated letter our two nation’s diplomats are getting drunk in the local Parisian taverns celebrating this important day for the two nations.

Inca

[Diplo Holland]

Originally posted by Diplo Inca


To: Huygens of Hollande
From: Great Incan Council

Sir we would want to clarify some facts here:

America approached us and asked for assistance, seeing the growing aggressiveness of Carpathia we aided them. For those who aren’t aware of western terra politics we ask them to go back to their achieves and study the real events. We are proud of the fact that when asked by smaller nations like America and Mali at the time of need we didn’t hesitate at all - instead we backed them up. Also if some are more interested in the details please read the American accounts of those years of struggle. The Incan who took part in that war were used mainly for defensive purposes.

Incan troops were retuned immediately after the Americans took the offensive, thus our troops didn’t play any part of that – for reference check with the Americans

Inca has no sphere of influence, what evidence does Holland has to support these claims? We kindly ask you to provide if you have any. Unlike you we have what is called a relation index which was purposefully created to give transparency to our foreign relations with all nations on Terra.

To: The Great Incan Council (whoever or which city they represent!)
From: Huygens of Hollande

You misunderstand us sir.

We support your sphere of influence and believe you acted correctly AT THAT TIME to stem the tide of Tepes aggression. America deserved help then but as time wore on they subsequently abused their situation and proceeded with what can only be seen as genocide. Tepes was gone and the Carpathians are decent religious people looking for guidance - NOT slaughter.

My earlier concerns are directed at America complaining about our sympathy for Carpathians TODAY.

Do you understand this?

We have programs planned to aid Carpathia and I'm sure you'll support this.

All super=powers have a sphere of influnce so don't be blind to this fact dear council. The Hollane sphere is clearly in the north and with Confucuonist nations as well as the new world. It is obvious.

Mongolia and Inca also have major spheres of influence.

Clovis, for Huygens of Hollande

[Diplo Holland]

Originally posted by Diplo Inca




We are shocked to see how little you know of current developments on Terra. We and the French have found a common ground, which will allow for our two nations to return to normality. French have spoken and we have signed a good deal. They are a sovereign nation which doesn’t needs your pity and influence. Let them be – they have proven to be a great diplomat and Machu Picchu has much respect for them. As you were writing this outdated letter our two nation’s diplomats are getting drunk in the local Parisian taverns celebrating this important day for the two nations.

Inca

Your previous communique with graphic said you wished to "stop spreading false infromation".

My response is about the fact that if you are referring to Hollande we did not spread information about numbers of cities nor do we see its relevance.

This is nothing to do with peace negotiations; it is to do with what we said at the time about Inca land dominance.

[Diplo Mali]

To: The nations of Terra.

From: King Mansa Musa II.

Please note that we stand shoulder to shoulder with the Government of America. Even as we were once enemies, now we are strong friends. So it can be with Carpathia if they show they truly wish it.

For our part, we ignored their capture of Bacau in order to maintain good relations. We sought to reach an amicable agreement over the site of Goa, but they responded with aggression and threats. We asked them kindly to compensate us for the deaths of the prisoners of war being sent back to the Mali, but again they refused and responded with aggression. Finally, the Malinese people had had enough, and we retaliated.

We were content with just the restoration of the cities which we had lost, at which point we made very generous offers of a substantial Wereguild for the loss of Bacau. All we asked in return was a mutual pledge not to violate each-others existing frontiers.

Our many overtures were met with stony silence and-we suspect-the brutal murder of our messengers. Fearful that Carpathia would attack anew, we merely decided to give our nation Breathing Space to reduce the chance of a fresh invasion from the North.

Since that time, we have made our peace with the Interim government of Carpathia, and wish to cement it with whatever, more permanent government should arise in its place.

Know, however, that the city of New Djenne is not on the table for negotiation-as the city was bought at too high a price. We are sorry for Carpahtia's loss, but the consequences of a lack of response was made well known prior to the fall of Vlad Tepes II.

That said, we repeat our offer of a substantial Wereguild to compensate for the loss of of Poeilosi (we no longer consider Bacau to be Carpathian, given the high number of Malinese in that city). We also offer them access to a knowledge of their choice for no charge (OOC: can that be considered charity?). All we ask in return is a pledge from the new government that no new hostilities will be entered into with the Mali.

We also suggest that, if France and Holland are so concerned with Carpathia's future development, perhaps they could consider setting aside land in the New World for their use. The Malinese people are content with the Old World, and so would support any such measures.

We only await the response of the new Carpathian Government.

The Peace of Ozzy be Upon you all.

[Diplo Holland]

Originally posted by Diplo Mali
To: The nations of Terra.

From: King Mansa Musa II.

edit

We also suggest that, if France and Holland are so concerned with Carpathia's future development, perhaps they could consider setting aside land in the New World for their use. The Malinese people are content with the Old World, and so would support any such measures.

We only await the response of the new Carpathian Government.

The Peace of Ozzy be Upon you all.

Well if you would see our communiqes note that we are still waiting for those drunken, blood sucking mayors to respond to our offers EXACTLY along the lines you suggest.

Just because its not in the open forum doesn't mean it's not happening.

Well, we are tryng to make it happen but it is difficult.

Might be easier if Mali and America....

[Diplo Mongolia]

A message from Mongolias Tribescouncil
To: Mr. Monroe


We wish to clarify our position. As you would certainly be aware, having the great and important position of Secretary, Mongolia has for many centuries been isolated from the world at large. Your age old war with Carpathia was all but unknown in our lands, and as such, uncared for. As you should also be aware of, the time of isolationism has ended. Mongolia has once more opened its borders and markets. The fact that some tens of thousands of American workers currently work in Mongolia should be an indicator of this. Your compensation for their efforts would be considered fair by all and any. Surely your secretaries must have informed you where all that gold was coming from?

As we reopen our eyes to the outside world, Mongolia has come to take a greater interest in it, and as such we feel that the dismemberment of a people from their right to self-rule, would be unfortuitous. You quote our old proverb, but as your knowledge of Mongol culture cannot be native, you could not know the full wording of this proverb.
"It is better to be bold than timid, better to be strong than weak, better to show honor than dishonor, for he who dares not act or speak, will be banished to irrelevance."

It is indeed good to show boldness in the face of adversity. But it is also important to show honor when dealing with those inferior. For I shall quote another great Mongol proverb,
"With great power comes great responsibility".

As you have now come to this position of power, so you must adopt the responsibility that comes with it. Mongolia views the world differently from you city dwellers, and our way is that if a man cannot live as an equal, he should not live. So by that ideal, you must either completely destroy Carpathia, or allow it to once more become your equal. Even us Mongols consider the total annhiliation of an entire people to be borderline excessive, and thus we believe you should allow Carpathia some manner of reprieve, lest they suffer total destruction.


I see that there is much our peoples do not know of eachother, though I suspect the gap has been diminished by your workers presence. Perhaps we should augment this growing understanding by establishing in your lands and our lands an institute at a University dedicated to eachothers culture?

[Diplo France]

Re: The end of Cuzco's glory

We are very entertained!

Sadly we do not have more time to respond to this, interesting that it is posted in the last minute.

Originally posted by Diplo Inca


Immediately after the short conflict between Cuzco and the French Empire, Cuzco was called to the great Incan Council to explain their violation of international law and what beef did it have with the French Empire. After much debate and talks it was decided that Cuzco will no longer represent the Incan civilization. The grand capital will be striped of almost all of its privileges. It will only maintain its religious and cultural influence on the Incan civilization. Never will the Inca again allow one of its cities to fight against a whole nation by itself. What a shame! From now on the whole of Inca should be informed and the great council will need to vote for their to be taken any agression toward a foreign nation.

Little is known about the Cuzco/French conflict. All the documents which would have shined light on what really happen and why were destroyed by the city of Cuzco. The majority of Incan cities didn’t care much, they were foreign to this so called conflict. Most even didn’t knew about it, Cuzco worked very hard to keep it out of sight from many even the great council.

Firstly, a century and a half of warfare that spanned an entire session: “a minor conflict”, not even a war? It is a shame the Incans never missed their troops, perhaps we should be so kind as to release the records of Incan casualties for the study of Incan historians who have apparently no record of these?

Sencondly, the Incans were quite public in their claims, so either Cuzco was in complete control of Inca foreign policy with every nation on terra and managed to censor all things concerning foreign affairs or this is a fabrication, a fairy tale to make the Incan people feel better about themselves, since other nations know better. What about, the sudden stop of the imports of foreign resources? Not goods, resources like silk and banana? And all the other cities failed to notice how Inca’s neighbors closed their borders because of this “minor conflict”. Also a large Incan army of diverse sources (supported by the state coffers while in foreign territory) was just taking a stroll North East thought Ottoman territory, blissfully unaware that they were being used by Cuzco to threaten the French homeland? A expensive stroll, and a diplomatically unsound one at that, I mean if they weren’t there to go to France they must have been sent there to intimidate the Ottomans?

So to sum this up not only was Cuzco capable of hiding massive casualties, it was able to take the Incan army on a march through Ottoman territory towards France, I am sure Ottoman historians can confirm its size and the fact that it was in fact an army collected from many sites across the Incan empire.

Not only this, but Cuzco were able to censure news from New Cuzco and abroad, it was able to take control of the entire Incan ocean going Navy without any other city noticing that suddenly armies were being sent to the new world?

They were also able to fool not just French but the intelligence officers of all nations investing sufficient ESP points to see what was going on in Incan cities, about production and troop movement?

What a magnificent conspiracy! Truly there is nothing like this in the History of Terra. If one did not take the Inca’s word for it one might not believe it at all!

In most conflict resolution or negotiation situations we will have a continuing relationship with the French so it is important to leave the situation with both sides feeling they have "won." It is very important that the French doesn't feel that they "lost." If one side feels that they have lost, the results are often lack of commitment to the agreement or even worse, retaliation.

Indeed a very intelligent position, we also wished to avoid giving the Incan empire the feeling that it had lost, since it might lead them to foolish actions.

So armed with this new skills Machu Picchu’s diplomatic envoy left for France to fix this diplomatic glitch.

The negotiations were much harder than that, it was by no means a diplomatic glitch. Unless you consider half a douzen very long meetings trivial.

Next, once aware of the conflict, both Inca and France experience emotional reactions to it and think about it in various ways. These emotions and thoughts are crucial to the course of the developing conflict. For example, a negotiation can be greately affected if a nation reacts in anger perhaps resulting from past conflict.

Indeed we often had to ask certain Incan representatives to calm down. Also not once did we leave the negotiating table in a tantrum, we fear we can not say this of all the Incan delegates.

Begin with a positive approach: Try to establish rapport and mutual trust before starting; try for a small concession early

Interesting, I fear I did not notice such small concessions at the beginning. Unless you are referring to the signed treaty that you illegally backed out of? Fortunately the new treaty is constructed so it complements the original, otherwise such a blatant abuse of trust might be considered dishonorable and might stain your reputation abroad. Lucky for all that this is clearly not the case.

[Diplo France]

Originally posted by Diplo Inca

My, my how did Cuzco ever explain the sudden animosity towards the Ottomans?

I say the Incas sure do like their walks don't they?

[Diplo France]

We are proud of the fact that when asked by smaller nations like America and Mali at the time of need we didn’t hesitate at all - instead we backed them up.

Selective memory is a wonderful thing, no? Look at the map of the New World, tell us was there not land unclaimed by any party? Was not that land much larger than current Incna territory?


The Incas contorl 8% of the worlds land mass, France less than 5%. Anyone looking at the map of the Old World can see that France is smaller.

Likewise anyone looking at the map of the Old world or perhaps the top 5 cities can see that Incan cities are all very large perfectly placed, while France has in desperation been forced to exploit marginal land.

Also anyone looking at their foreign advisor can see which nation is more advanced, has more gold and has more production and critically more troops.

Score, not a good indicator I suppose?


Gold, I must have lots of production to balance this out right?


Production, well maybe I'm finding a way to hide the bounty of my vast empire?


Espionage, aha the vast funds invested are clearly a sign of... eh... wait that makes no sense.




So do you still feel proud of Incaland? Of how it tries to steal land from poorer countries? But I will admit you did see the error of your ways and negotiate eventually.
The willingness for peace is a sing of better things to come, we never wanted war with you perhaps you shall finally respect us? Perhaps now we shall finally be treated as equals and not as trinkets to be traded in the grand game you have going with your archnemesis.

[Diplo France]

We are shocked to see how little you know of current developments on Terra. We and the French have found a common ground, which will allow for our two nations to return to normality. French have spoken and we have signed a good deal. They are a sovereign nation which doesn’t needs your pity and influence. Let them be – they have proven to be a great diplomat and Machu Picchu has much respect for them. As you were writing this outdated letter our two nation’s diplomats are getting drunk in the local Parisian taverns celebrating this important day for the two nations.

Some truth finally, it is unfortunate that you only speak kindly of us when it suits you to criticize Holland.

But you should know that Holland was referring to the past. And Incan motivation to start this war, was to steal land, this can not be denied.

And yes we are a independent nation, and we are sick of being portrayed as a vassal of Holland by certain diplomats. We have had a good relationship with them, but one only needs to look West to see that we disagree on many things. Or perhaps one needs to merley look at how French workers went to Mongolia, something clearly against Dutch interests.

[Diplo France]

Just to be completly clear Incan aid at the start of the war to America was indeed something good, something to be proud of. Carpathia was becoming unreasonable and very agression, a threat to all nations.

This in any case was merely a exercise in historical research, this is the past. In the present the Incas have agreed to a honorable treaty, we shall not however listen to propaganda being sold as truth by revisonist Incan historians.

-Almundo the historian

[Diplo France]

Originally posted by Diplo Mali
To: The nations of Terra.

From: King Mansa Musa II.

Please note that we stand shoulder to shoulder with the Government of America. Even as we were once enemies, now we are strong friends. So it can be with Carpathia if they show they truly wish it.

For our part, we ignored their capture of Bacau in order to maintain good relations. We sought to reach an amicable agreement over the site of Goa, but they responded with aggression and threats. We asked them kindly to compensate us for the deaths of the prisoners of war being sent back to the Mali, but again they refused and responded with aggression. Finally, the Malinese people had had enough, and we retaliated.

We were content with just the restoration of the cities which we had lost, at which point we made very generous offers of a substantial Wereguild for the loss of Bacau. All we asked in return was a mutual pledge not to violate each-others existing frontiers.

Our many overtures were met with stony silence and-we suspect-the brutal murder of our messengers. Fearful that Carpathia would attack anew, we merely decided to give our nation Breathing Space to reduce the chance of a fresh invasion from the North.

Since that time, we have made our peace with the Interim government of Carpathia, and wish to cement it with whatever, more permanent government should arise in its place.

Know, however, that the city of New Djenne is not on the table for negotiation-as the city was bought at too high a price. We are sorry for Carpahtia's loss, but the consequences of a lack of response was made well known prior to the fall of Vlad Tepes II.

That said, we repeat our offer of a substantial Wereguild to compensate for the loss of of Poeilosi (we no longer consider Bacau to be Carpathian, given the high number of Malinese in that city). We also offer them access to a knowledge of their choice for no charge (OOC: can that be considered charity?). All we ask in return is a pledge from the new government that no new hostilities will be entered into with the Mali.

We also suggest that, if France and Holland are so concerned with Carpathia's future development, perhaps they could consider setting aside land in the New World for their use. The Malinese people are content with the Old World, and so would support any such measures.

We only await the response of the new Carpathian Government.

The Peace of Ozzy be Upon you all.

TO: King Mansa Musa II
FROM: King Henry the II.

We are afraid we don't quite understand you, our Marshall’s plan called for major aid to be given to all Western nations. It also called for exactly the kind of re-invention of Carpathia that would be needed (OOC: post-WW2 Japan) for a lasting peace.

We are baffled that you are grouping us together with the Dutch, since they did not offer a plan to develop the west, to help it recover but they voiced their concern at what they call “genocide”. We however know that the Mali and American people are in truth eager to help the Carpathian people rebuild their land into a beacon of peace and stability with friendly relations to both America and Mali and solidarity towards Russia.

Reparations will be paid, but not primarily in land, and not excessively harsh, since that would violate self determination of the Carpathian people and would eventually bring about revanchist feelings (OOC: post-WWI Germany).

We also agree that Carpathia has been silent for far too long, as we have stated, it is up to them to state they are commited to this course. What you propose is very well thought off and you would have our support in such an arangement.

Please do not misrepresent our foreign policy in the future.

King Henry the II. of France

[Diplo Inca]

Wine



Wine is an alcoholic beverage made from the fermentation of grape juice. The natural chemical balance of grapes is such that they can ferment without the addition of sugars, acids, enzymes or other nutrients. Wine is produced by fermenting crushed grapes using various types of yeast which consume the sugars found in the grapes and convert them into alcohol. Various varieties of grapes and strains of yeasts are used depending on the types of wine produced.

Incan wine makers were invited in Timbuktu to promote this new alcoholic beverage. Mali were very interested in learning more about it. Inca were more then happy to send their merchants to Mali lands.

Not long after that American and Russian letters arrived to request Inca send some complimentary bottles of Incan wine to be tested.

[Diplo America]

TO: King Henry the II. of France
FROM: Thomas Jefferson, Commander in Chief, of America

Concerning: The Marshall Plan

We greatly appreciate the offers of help and rebuilding assistance. We also hope to help Carpathia rebuild after the war. America has known much war and want nothing more than to finally see peace in the West. Permanent peace.

You are right to be upset over insinuations that France is somehow a puppet or vassal of Holland. We have known France to be a fair-minded and just nation. Unlike your neighbors to the north. We hope you similarly reject the insinuations by Holland that America is somehow in-league with or controlled by the Inca.

America is part of no one's "sphere of influence'.

In recent years America has made mutually beneficial trades with France, Mongolia, Mali, Inca, Russia and Holland. We believe in a policy of peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations – entangling alliances with none.

As for the Carpathian demands, I encourage you to see their unreasonableness. Retaining Oradea and Foccicia will not cripple Carpathia, but returning them will cripple America. At the time Carpathia invaded America, we had 8 cities to their 12. They had 4 cities more than us. If America's offer is accepted, America will have 10 cities and Carpathia will have 7 (with land rights in the New World). A difference of 3.

Furthermore, when the Mali had 4 cities and Carpathia had 12 they invaded and sought to steal more land from the poor Mali. Even though they had 8 more cities!

So you see, when Carpathia had 4 more cities they sought to steal more from America. When America has 3 more, we seek peace. We seek a more equitable situation than what Carpathia proposes.

This will not cripple Carpathia. This will restore order to the West.

Before the war:
Carpathia 12
America 8
Mali 4

After the war (according to America's plan):
America 10
Carpathia 7
Mali 7

Many inequalities that existed before the war (and that Carpathia sought to make worse) are corrected under America's plan. Yes, we do end up with the most land after the deal, but we fought the most, risked the most, and achieved the most. If we seek an equitable balance I think it is only fair that Carpathia pay the greatest price as they not only were equal in size to America & Mali combined, but started this war with the intent of taking even more land from us. There must be some consequences for their crimes.

The consequences America seeks are more just than what Carpathia proposes.

We ask also that if this proposal is accepted and if the great seafaring powers of the world still feel pity and sympathy for Carpathia to also feel sympathy for the Mali. They have fought bravely and suffered much at the hands of Carpathian aggression. Yet at the end of this ordeal they have the same territorial standing as Carpathia. If Mongolia thinks America's plan will cripple Carpathia, then what of the Mali? Surely the Mali should receive more aid than Carpathia. They are no better off, but as opposed to Carpathia, are also innocent of war crimes.

America also urges France to see through the lies put forward by Carpathia about being "ganged up on" by three civilizations. It is simply not true. As you can see, when the war started America and the Mali together equaled all of Carpathia. We did not "gang up" on them, Carpathia "ganged up" on America and the Mali. They started the war. They took two Mali cities. They invaded America. They have themselves to blame. Inca's role, as they stated, was only during the early part of the war to help America and the Mali repel the Carpathian invasion. Their help, as you recognize, was an admirable defense of two small nations against the aggressive ambitions of a much larger power. When the Carpathians refused to negotiate peace and America's war turned offensive the Incan troops were returned. Therefore for most of the war it was just Carpathia vs. Mali & America. This was a very equal war. Our side simply prevailed through superior strategy and determination. Nothing more.

We appreciate France's fair handling of the situation. We have sent you a private communication on this matter and await a response.

Thomas Jefferson
Commander in Chief
United States of America

[Diplo Mongolia]

Explanatory Note to Mr. Jefferson.

We said that you could claim any peripheral or provincial areas you deemed fit. It is a full-fledged seizure of core Carpathian lands that we oppose. We are not getting involved in any of the specifics, we have merely stated that a balanced peace would be wise. Your current suggestion seems reasonably fair. Your boldness has been proved and that equals certain rewards. Take as you please, but remember that should you gorge yourself on another's expense, others still may see this as a path for their own glory.