Rah's saturday game II

[Snotty]

sorry so sleepy maybe next time

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Dominae

One thing we could do is require a full turn to pass after declaring war before units can enter enemy territory. This technically wouldn't remove the double move, however it would offer a couple more turns preparation.

This I don't like because it... removes surprise war as a strategy, and gives the already strong defense another bonus. Frankly the main reason I'm for double moves is that the defense has a lot of bonii in civ4 and a defender with properly maintained borders and standing armies is not particularly harmed (as long as you have two moves' space inside your borders, which inside your important cities you ought to). It's a tactic that is truly devastating the first time, but beyond that it is simply a strategy.

Ultimately, understand that i'm coming from the point of view of someone who was adamantly against double moves for my first ten or fifteen games of MP. Once you play a few games with it being used, you get used to it, and strategies to counter it are common and simple. Just build 3 deep borders.

Double moves gives added value to culture, as that makes it harder for an opponent to double move you effectively, and also give some value to having "border towns" that you lightly defend (Rah and MD, think in that game where you two attacked me, I think my first or second game; the town I had to my far west that RAH took over was such a town, a town that I didn't mind losing and didn't go to much effort to defend except when it was easily defensible).

They also give added value to certain defensive strategies, like catapult groups and spear/pikemen. Someone double moving you likely has a single stack or a small number of stacks, as they have no advantage otherwise. Add to that the fact that only horsemen can get through three layers of borders and still have a move...

Finally, it is pretty easy to avoid them. If you're paying attention to the players' turns finishing, you should notice two things: one, when only a single person has yet to hit enter (they could be DMing); two, when the turn is within seven seconds of completing. At those two times, pay attention to anyone who has the potential of DMing you, and still has their turn unchecked... and you'll not have a problem. You might not know where they're coming from, but watch your borders and you'll see

[rah]

I'm awake

[snoopy369]

Did the bulls win?

[rah]

I think the rule we played last week worked well.

[rah]

No, i think they lost in overtime

[rah]

Hoping to start around 6:15 central time. (30 minutes)
Who's wants in.

[kbarrett]

in.

[Jaguar]

I might be in.

[snoopy369]

I'm taking out the cat litter trash. I'll be back in 5.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by rah
No, i think they lost in overtime

Ah well.

[snoopy369]

Perhaps you should clarify the rule from last week for those of us who weren't there?

[Dominae]

Originally posted by snoopy369
This I don't like because it... removes surprise war as a strategy, and gives the already strong defense another bonus. Frankly the main reason I'm for double moves is that the defense has a lot of bonii in civ4 and a defender with properly maintained borders and standing armies is not particularly harmed (as long as you have two moves' space inside your borders, which inside your important cities you ought to). It's a tactic that is truly devastating the first time, but beyond that it is simply a strategy.

Playing devil's advocate: it's not really a "strategy", because there's no (good) reason not to use it.

I don't think offense/defense is so unbalanced in Civ4 that double moves are necessary.

Tonight I will follow my own rule (in bold above) and we'll see how it goes.

[rah]

who needs the IP PMed

[Dominae]

Me.

We're starting in 15 right? I'm eating supper now...