The HOTW VII - Setup Thread IV - We Talk Too Much

[deity]

Not sure about the card thing ozzy, but I get the idea. More importantly I see you put all your Warlord experience points to one unit. Not a bad idea

[deity]

The diplo could be being a little bit lost in this game though.

Levi please respond to PM's.

Omni please turn up.

lz, please turn up again.. the game has a real dynamic with you in it.

England and Inca, please wake up to yourselves

PS Not sure how England knows which techs it can trade with AI, Glohithia and Mike alternating mid game...

And I believe it was agreed that you can trade with AI civs who you have existing tech trading relations with, a la India, Egypt and China; OR Choson, Vikings, Celts.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by deity
The diplo could be being a little bit lost in this game though.

Levi please respond to PM's.

Omni please turn up.

lz, please turn up again.. the game has a real dynamic with you in it.

England and Inca, please wake up to yourselves

PS Not sure how England knows which techs it can trade with AI, Glohithia and Mike alternating mid game...

And I believe it was agreed that you can trade with AI civs who you have existing tech trading relations with, a la India, Egypt and China; OR Choson, Vikings, Celts.

I've written off Omni at this point, we have a new player for the Celts who I have spoken with plenty and he seems perfect for this game. If Omni shows up he can sub.

Glohithia IS Mike. They don't alternate.

And diplo is most definitely NOT dead. There is, and has been, plenty of diplomacy and negotiating. Maybe don't rely exclusively on PMs and try using AIM/YIM/MSN mid-week. That is where I do most of my talking about the game.

[deity]

I didn't say dead!

I agree it's still a great diplo game - just could have been better.

[Robert]

I suggest that for next game we let all players pay $100 to an trustable person in advance, then all players who end the game without missing more then 1 session without a good reason will get their money back.

That'll make people more dedicated

[LzPrst]

hey folks

yes. I admit, I am not very dedicated to this game atm. if you remember my hotw5 activity there's a big difference. I am not quite sure why this is, it certainly isnt because I'm not doing well. I think it has to do with me getting a little bored with computer games in general. I havent played a game of civ since before the patch came out.

I think the main reason is that I dont have the energy to conduct lots of diplomacy during the week and post long posts. by now I should have regular contacts (during the week) with most nations of the world. but that will tie up a lot of my time, writing up IC or OOC letters for 6-10 players, all depending on who I have dealings with that particular week. basically, my life has changed a little lately and computer games have taken a back seat, which is actually a good thing.

to skip to the more generic point. I havent bothered to put together any strong diplomatic efforts. I havent reached out much to my non-neighbours except from a few exceptions. but neither has anyone reached out to me for quite some time. we cannot have a game where some players are passive and waiting for others to act. that is part of the problem. I myself am, in stark contrast to my efforts in hotw5, guilty of the same.


I am not sure why, there may be many reasons, perhaps people feel that diplomacy is locked. that some nations have close to permanent alliances. I've been allied to carthage the entire game, for logical reasons, both for them and for me, but despite all cred for Ryk's willingness to hang in there despite a crappy position (may yet change) I suspect that he hasnt had the vital necessety to deal with anyone else, and thus havent. arabs and bulgaria have been allied for most of the game and as a result, have had no need to make other friends. it all seems very static to me, constant repeats of the same session (diplowise) with only technological advances made.

I know that it is illogical and unproductive to break out of an alliance once you're in one that is beneficial, but the result is invariably a static game. now I am not starting a blame game. if anyone is at fault we all are. and we are playing to win all of us. I am not saying that alliances should not be allowed, or that they should break up. what I am saying is this. those who are in an alliance that works well for them have no need to conduct extensive diplomacy (though I am certain that they should benefit from it) it is the "little" empires that NEED to conduct diplomacy, to trade techs with eachother, to ally up in times of aggression who seem to fall short. the clue here is that ALL players must be proactive. everyone has to reach out and talk to other leaders. this isnt happening and the game is stagnating because of it. the reason seems obvious from my side, the major powers dont need to (myself, arab, choson, bulgaria) and the middle powers are dillydalling with I dont know what.

I am not placing blame on the smaller civs, but they have far more to benefit from stirring the pot constantly on the outside. all in all, this game is suffering from an allround lack of diplomatic activity. thats the diagnosis.

now for the cure.

I honestly dont know what will get people more dedicated. I'd like to finish this game, but it is looking a little grim. people are just not active enough for it to keep momentum. this needs to change. I am going to take my part of the blame, I have done very little, if hardly anything outside of game time. again, in hotw5 I couldnt stop thinking about the game, I checked for new posts several times a day, I was hooked. this game, not so much. my impression is that this seems to be the case for most players. posting is one thing, which is needed and important, and something that I havent been feeling like doing for quite some time, and the other is letters and hidden diplomacy that I've basically not bothered with at all. are other players feeling the same? I just cant seem to figure out how we can make people more dedicated, more interested, more lively. it is a lack of excitement perhaps, or a feeling that there is too much to handle (too many players perhaps), maybe some have RL issues that they prefer to deal with, I dont know.

I certainly know with myself that I am not putting enough effort into this game, and havent been for a while. I think perhaps I need a break. perhaps we all do. we need to take a moment and ask ourselves, why are we playing this, what is it that makes it so interesting? for me, I dont have many answers at the moment, which is semi-related to my mood. I am not the happy cheerful camper I usually am. and the feeling is borderline " I dont feel like doing anything at the moment".

I'm gonna try to pick things up again. most nations can expect letters from the vikings before the session and during next week, and I'll make a genuine effort to get back in the game, diplowise. I ask that everyone else does the same. we need to get those letters flying, we need to make deals and plans and such outside the game.

as for tonights session. I'm not sure if I can play. but I'll make an effort. for me the game's time slot is a little difficult, always has been, but lately more than usual.

[Toni]

Hey how can I say it in a more polite manner, once the ball starts rolling it can't stop guys. The show must go on. Taking a break will only harm the game even more. I knew for what I was signing, I hope u did too folks when we started this game.

[Robert]

I kinda agree with LzPrst about the 'fixed alliances'.
Diplomacy is only fun if players are willing to break alliances. I get the feeling that OOC reasons (that people are not aware of) are the reason for people for sticking to their alliances. It just doen'st feel good to betray an allie.

I tried to break away from my allies but it was impossible
I hope that people are just willing to now and then do something different. It's not as if every alliance is now doomed to be broken, though a little bit more alliance changes wouldn't be that bad.

[OzzyKP]

I for one have been conducting massive amounts of diplomacy in this game. Plenty of negotiations with Bulgaria, England, Inca, India, Choson, and Kushren. Bulgaria of course was in extensive negotiations with the Chinese, Egyptians and Indians when we pulled off a diplomatic coup in fooling them into thinking Bulgaria was allying with them. Thus delaying a war that we weren't at the time ready for.

And just like HOTWV I've been checking the forum constantly looking for new posts. And thinking and plotting about the game constantly. Toni IMs me like 3 times a day to talk about the game, hehe.

As for permanent alliances, it isn't an OOC thing, but in game there is really no reason to break a long standing alliance like this when it is so mutually beneficial. Does that hurt the game? I dunno. But I can't think of a non-artificial way to prevent it.

I'm all in favor of breaking alliances. When I was 'allied' to the Kushren originally they broke some promises and acted really shifty with our "alliance" so I didn't really care if that alliance ended or not. Ultimately it led to war with my former allies. However with a partner who is loyal, keeps his promises, and provides a mutually beneficial arrangement... why change?

[Toni]

From what I can see there are some people lossing interest in our game. On the other hand there are still people eager to play the game . I really wona finish this game, but i will go with what the group decides. One thing we should do for next diplo is focus on a smaller reliable group of proven diplo players, that will stick it till the end whatever happens.

Players with the cleanest participation record: (No specific order)

Ozzy
CS
Toni
Deity
Ryk
Levi

Frank too just ( work hrs)
Conq (same)
Mike (same)

Depends on how they feel that day:
Kuno
Lz
Nolan

OT no excuses here

All of us have RL issues and they come of course 1st, but atleast in my case I aways try to be flexible to suit both needs I hope nobody will be offended by my newbish participation list, that just the reality.

[Toni]

Hey look at CS, the guy had a baby and the worse start this game, but he is still around and never missed a session plus he is an active poster. Hmmm sorry but if he can make it shame on us all then So if anyone needs a participation gold medal at the end of the game my vote goes for him Even after that great western war when he lost much, he still find a way to find the joy in playing.

[Robert]

Nolan and Kuno have been around for every session, except last session! Kuno told us in advance.
I concider Kuno and Nolan to be very reliable players as well.

LzPrst is a reliable player as well, though somethings things happen with him and then he's suddenly not there
I really like his presence in the games, though I must admit that it's a pitty that he sometimes is suddenly not there

And yeah, I rock 8)

[OzzyKP]

Yea, I agree that Kuno and Nolan are pretty reliable too.

[deity]

Yeah, everyone's pretty reliable...

[deity]

I'm pretty sure that some players trust the OOC player rather than the civ. We had a debate about this to some extent during an Aussie game. We'd gotten into a mould where some civs defended heavily on borders with known aggressors and defended lightly on borders with known peaceful players. Relying on OOC trust IMHO causes game stagnation. It's just a game. If a known peaceful player suddenly finds that war is the only way forward for their civ then expect war.

This is just an example of OOC being mixed up with game play, whether it be diplo or any type of game.