I am trying to bring back Diplogames...

[deity]

I'm trying to round up a few more Aussies/// there are lots playing Civ4 MP.

[deity]

I got the map loaded ozzy - no problem. That world builder is great eh!

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

OK, can you guys give this MP newbie a quick 'rundown' of what a diplogame is-and how it will operate? Thankyou !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Ljube]

Guys, there will be a patch that resolves numerous issues with video cards (including mine - my PC keeps restarting), corrects a few bugs and adds additional features. This patch will be released in 1-2 weeks. I suggest we wait till then and then start a game. This will give us plenty of time to discuss rules and play day and time. I'm for USA Friday night. It seems to suit everybody.

[OzzyKP]

You can't get the game to work at all Ljube?

Crap, I really want to get moving on this soon. I second what has been said that we need to strike while the iron is hot. For folks who can't play this week, could we go with a sub perhaps?

I could see waiting 1 week perhaps, but not 2. I'd prefer to just get started now though. If people actually respond and don't dick around I think we can get the time figured out right now. I can customize the map tonight on the assumption that we are playing with Rome, Russia, Mongols, Chinese, Mali and India. I NEED information from everyone though on what leader they want.

Ok, so I think we're going with USA Friday night at 8.30 pm EST.

Here is a checklist of what needs to be decided. RESPOND ASAP.

Can play USA Friday night at 8.30 pm EST:
Ozzy - Yes
Deity - Yes
Capo - Yes
Ljube - Yes
Frank -
Trev -

Can start this week (tomorrow):
Ozzy - Yes
Deity - Yes
Capo -
Ljube -
Frank -
Trev -

Has picked a civ:

Ozzy - India
Deity - China
Capo - Rome
Ljube - Russia
Frank - Mongolia
Trev - Mali

Has picked a leader (I need to put this in the map manually, so let me know ASAP):

Ozzy - Yes, Ghandi
Deity -
Capo - Yes, Julius Caesar
Ljube -
Frank - Yes, Kublai Khan
Trev - Yes, only one Mali dude

Answer quick. Also, lets build a sub roster:

Deity Dude
Rasputin
...

[Frank Johnson]

Guess I'm out. I'll look for a 2nd game.

[The Capo]

I think we need to relax a bit here...

Ozzy, I think you're awesome, but I think you need to relax a little bit. We don't NEED to get this going by this weekend. I actually can't play this Friday because I already made plans last week when I didn't know what day the game was going to be on. Sorry, I know I just said I could play Fridays a couple of posts ago, but again I didn't know at the time that this Friday would be the begining.

Also, I don't exactly understand why Frank is out?

I think we should have at least seven civilizations in the game, as far as I can tell we have six so far.

I mean, my whole point is that it would be a lot better to have this thing go down right rather than fast, if anyone disagrees we should discuss it.

And Ozzy I will try to be online tonight and see if we can do a test run or something like that. I've only played one game of CivIV (a hotseat game with my room-mate), so I don't really know how MP works at all yet, also I'd like to see how my connection works with the game.

I think Ljube is right, that if there is a patch that fixes some issues we should wait for that. We don't want to put all of this effort into a diplogame (and from what I can tell CivIV's first one) only to have it fall on its face, do we?

We can use the next week to fine tune the game and make sure everyone's connection is going to work out for them. But I again, I can't play tomorrow because of a prior commitment, (Well not until around 10pm USA/EST at any rate).

Alright, I say we take some advice from Ljube and wait until the new patch comes out, in the meantime Ozzy can work on the map a bit more, we can figure out exactly when we will be playing this game, maybe set up another tribe, and whatever else comes up between now and then.

What do you guys think?

[Frank Johnson]

Friday night is the only night of the week I work late. I can start 2nd game is that's the time that is chosen though.

The reason why Ozzy (and I) think we should move as quickly as possible is that we are moving into the holiday season. If we don't establish a time slot holiday parties and get togethers and such will errode at any start for the next six weeks or so.

[OzzyKP]

Ok, it looks like there is no way Capo and Frank can get their schedules to match up. So I think we will definitely need to have 2 seperate games. (two kick ass games probably is great to have anyhow).

Hopefully some folks can sign up for both games. I can't though. I put in too much time developing stories and such for one game, taking on two would be way too much for me with all my work. I am available to sub in whichever game I'm not in though. Plus I'm able to work on customizing the maps for both games.

I can do either Friday night or Saturday night.

As for who does which game... that's where things get tricky. I don't want to piss off or alienate anyone, but I'm gonna try and think this through logically and make some recommendations.

In my estimation the four best storytellers we've got in the community are me, Capo, Ljube, and Rasputin. So if all of them are in one game, the other game would suffer I think. So while it would be fricken awesome to have us all in one game together, I think if we want to widen our base a bit perhaps splitting us up would be wise.

Having two games would work, but we'll need to aggressively start bringing in new players. Cause we've got just enough for one game right now. If we go with 2 games, then having a mix of veterans and newbies would help build the community and bring in some fresh blood to keep us going and expanding. So bringing in new people is essential.

Also, I think we've agreed on the two times to play (fri night and sat night), but another point of division is when to start the game. Some folks want to wait, some folks want to start right away. So perhaps a safe bet for doing this would be to have one game start now and another game start in like 2 weeks.

The wait group could include some folks who have expressed an interest in the game but haven't gotten everything up and running yet (like Rasputin or Deity Dude).

I know Frank, Deity, and I are all down with getting started right now. So if we were the core of one game it'd have to be on Sat to accomodate Frank.

Now, things get tricky if we want to balance the best story tellers. Rasputin doesn't even have the game yet, so he's definitely a wait. Capo has plans this friday, so he's a wait. Ljube seems to also be in the wait group since he wants to get that patch. My question though to Ljube is whether his problems with the game are so bad he can't play, or whether he just had a few occasional problems that he was hoping to clear up, but if he had to, could still get the game working. That could make all the difference.

If its the later, then Ljube can join the Sat game with me, and then Capo & Raz can form the story-core of the Fri-night game (though I was looking forward to being in a game with Capo again).

So yea. That's my thoughts on the issue. Of course its possible that with the group split up as it seems to be, no matter how we scramble we might have to wait until next week to get either game moving. For my part though I'd really like to get started, even with a short session. Because there will no doubt be some technical issues initially, so the sooner we can get that stuff out of the way the better.

Capo - I'll be online and able to test a bit tonight. Good idea.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
OK, can you guys give this MP newbie a quick 'rundown' of what a diplogame is-and how it will operate? Thankyou !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

What distinguishes a diplogame is the following:

1. All players roleplay their civ based on gameplay. Diplomacy is rational and realistic, not an all-war situation like most MP. A smooth talker and crafty deal maker can often be just as competitive as someone who is just a dominating player.

2. To accompany the actual MP gameplay all players post interactive stories on the forum retelling their experiences, creating running storylines, foreshadowing their decisions and much more. There are some incredible stories written around diplogames in the past.

3. Having fun and enjoying the game is often more important than simply winning. Everyone in the game is concerned with balance and keeping others involved in the game. So if someone is badly stunted by war or by other factors, players will typically help him/her out to try and restore balance. Or alliances will emerge to bring down the leader. Not to say no one cares about winning, we certainly do, but the game is far deeper.

4. These games are very epic and very stable. Unlike a 2 hour duel, these games run for 8 months or so of playing 5 hours every week. If someone drops or can't make it, we get a sub to replace him. But the game goes on. We have a good stable group, everyone signs up beforehand, and most people ride the game out from beginning to end.

More information here (highly recommended you check this link out): http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=101988

The most epic of all the Diplogames was "History of the World 2" which ran from February 16, 2001 - November 15, 2001, chapter one of HOTW2 can be read here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...&threadid=1487

We are always looking for new people to join our community, so if this kind of gaming interests you PLEASE sign up to play in one of these two diplogames that are emerging for Civ4. thanks

[The Capo]

Hmm...

Well, I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't disappointed about what has transpired, but at the risk of looking selfish I have a few points I think should be made;

If enhancing/expanding the diplogaming community is our goal, I think it would be wise to at least have a good one to use as an example. I understand this may take a while to actually gain that effect, but in the long run I feel that the better idea would be to try and make one game with the best storytellers in it, and in the background we try and increase interest by advertisment.

I mean, if we just invite new players we run the risk of screwing the game(s) up. In my mind a greater disservice to the diplogaming community would be screwing up two games rather than having one great example for us to use in order to get more diplogamers.

Now, I understand that we do have plenty of examples, but those are all in Civ2, I don't know if Civ3 really had any good diplogames but I don't see any evidence to suggest there were any, so already this genre can be seen as maybe a remnant of Civ2 MP, which I don't think it is by any means.

Also Frank brought up the fact that the holiday season is approaching as a reason to expedite the start of this game, but I feel like whether you start it now or later that the holidays will have the same effect no matter when you start it (whether its this weekend or next week, or the week after that), so I don't see that as a reason to change the start day (unless you wanted to move it so it occurs after the holidays, which is the only way that point makes any sense).

What I'm calling for is what I called for in my last post; and that is a delay in order to organize a time that we can get the optimum number of solid diplogamers in the game, and a delay to make sure there aren't any problems that we find out about AFTER the game has already started.

I think this is a better plan than making two games (one with a start day of tomorrow, and one with a start day within the next two weeks) because it allows us all to get on the same page and make sure the game goes smoothly, I mean how many diplogames have failed because of some unforseen issue that COULD have been resolved before the game had all of the players co-ordinated all of their efforts and all understood eachother?

If you answer "none" to this you are either blind, retarded or haven't played in a diplogame.

I know I can sound rude at some times, and this may be another one of them, but I really think the best way to go about this is to get as many good players in the game as possible and make sure its well managed and occurs after everything has been addressed so there aren't any problems two months, one month, or a week down the road.

If we want to get the diplogame community going I think the first order of business should be to actually inform the public what diplogames are. I know we have the FAQ, and we have a CivGroup, but I feel like a lot of people don't know, and we see examples of people asking what it is time and time again. Many of these people may become turned off while the game is going on, which could result in a problem for that particular game. Just a thought.

Also, we should call this something... HOTW5 would be easy, but any other ideas?

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

I would very much like to be involved in a diplogame-the only problem I really have is having sufficient time to write a narrative about the game. Out of interest, how often do you expect people to write up? Also, the weekend games-what time of day would they be in Australia? If they are at a good time for me, then I will say that you can sign me up !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Frank Johnson]

Well the way its looking can we get 6 or 7 players together on either day this week? Looks like not, which gives us another week to toss it around. I'd love to get started saturday, but I've been grinding away at the game since it came out and that's just me.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
I would very much like to be involved in a diplogame-the only problem I really have is having sufficient time to write a narrative about the game. Out of interest, how often do you expect people to write up? Also, the weekend games-what time of day would they be in Australia? If they are at a good time for me, then I will say that you can sign me up !

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Typically we aim for a game session of a few hours (about 5) each week, and then posting between those sessions. So a minimum of one post a week, though more active folks like the Capo and I may do 2 or 3 (or more). Of course because of holidays and other issues with getting 6-7 people in one place at the same time, we don't always have a session every single week. So sometimes we've got 2 weeks to craft some good stories. Its variable.

As for what time, it'll probably be mid-afternoon. Like 12 - 2 PM your time.

Great to have you on board!!!

[deity]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
You can't get the game to work at all Ljube?

Crap, I really want to get moving on this soon. I second what has been said that we need to strike while the iron is hot. For folks who can't play this week, could we go with a sub perhaps?

I could see waiting 1 week perhaps, but not 2. I'd prefer to just get started now though. If people actually respond and don't dick around I think we can get the time figured out right now. I can customize the map tonight on the assumption that we are playing with Rome, Russia, Mongols, Chinese, Mali and India. I NEED information from everyone though on what leader they want.

Ok, so I think we're going with USA Friday night at 8.30 pm EST.

Here is a checklist of what needs to be decided. RESPOND ASAP.

Can play USA Friday night at 8.30 pm EST:
Ozzy - Yes
Deity - Yes
Capo - Yes
Ljube - Yes
Frank -
Trev -

Can start this week (tomorrow):
Ozzy - Yes
Deity - Yes
Capo -
Ljube -
Frank -
Trev -

Has picked a civ:

Ozzy - India
Deity - China
Capo - Rome
Ljube - Russia
Frank - Mongolia
Trev - Mali

Has picked a leader (I need to put this in the map manually, so let me know ASAP):

Ozzy - Yes, Ghandi
Deity -
Capo - Yes, Julius Caesar
Ljube -
Frank - Yes, Kublai Khan
Trev - Yes, only one Mali dude

Answer quick. Also, lets build a sub roster:

Deity Dude
Rasputin
...

Can I have Xia as a leader name and Xianbei as the civ? Is this possible in the China slot? I haven't had time to look deeply into the world builder yet.

Good on you ozzy for all this effort. I reckon we need at least a test run this weekend with whoever can make it USA Fri and or Sat night. Maybe we team up with a regular sub so that when Capo ducks and weaves the game goes on

Deity Dude might be a good sub for me because it'll take him time to get started with Civ4; and he might like to sub the Xianbei after he's had a chance to get familiar with Civ4. Not that I'm planning any unavailabilty but with this type of arrangement we could go 2 nights a week. And Sats are better for me than Fri's and Thurs (all three nights possible for me though)

And we need some new blood, so thanks for applying Aussie Lurker (do I know you?? Not a Raz d/l I hope!! LOL )

I agree with ozzy on Momentum. Let's get cracking.... Capo sounds like a Bush public servant making excuses for doing nothing he he Ya gotta play Capo and re-arrange your life, sorry, that's an order!! You are the lifeblood of diplos (along with Raz and ozzy).

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