Ozzy The Eyes Slayer

[OzzyKP]

Also reposted (twice actually), here is an "after game analysis" of a game I played with the infamous EyesOfNight/StarlightDeath/QuickAcorn/HappySunshine/MalevolentLight/manymanyothernames:


I was asked in the other thread to do a review of Civ4 MP. So I played another game tonight. Wouldn't cha know it, I was up against EyesOfNight once again. Better yet I beat him again.

So yea, I've played a grand total of two multiplayer games on Civ4 both games were duels against Eyes and both games I won. (considering he's played like 20-30 games online so far, I'm just dying to hear his excuse).

Actually though, I know his excuse, he was kind enough to post it over on the Civ3Players Ladder League site. He started a new thread titled "
I just lost to OzzyKP "

What an amazing game. The fact that iron was the only resource on the entire map on mirror really made the game enjoyable. Even more enjoyable was the fact that I spent the whole game ahead. I had a huge tech lead. There is nothing ozzy even kept up with me on. Even though I was way ahead though (had this been civ2 it would have been a joke I was so far ahead) it doesn't really matter because being ahead in tech doesn't really count for anything. Not only that, but crossbows aren't worth nuts and they aren't worth their cost. So I wonder, what exactly is it that ozzy did to beat me. Hmmmmm...he didn't out play me. His army stack go completely obliterated. Oh wait, I forgot, he was "persistent" and in civ that that counts for something according to ozzy. He didn't mow me down with his military prowess. He didn't out grow me with his amazing economic abilites. All he did was sit at home all day and grow with his walls and culture bonus and upgraded longbows. I guess this is what civ is all about. Sitting at home and building temples and monasteries. He did a nice little tactic at the end too and built a bunch of new cities to get his land rating up. Didn't matter that I had all the great leaders in the world or all the wonders. Nope, just sit back and build temples and libraries because that's what civ is all about. I'm tired of canucksoldier and his weakass replies about how they didn't have a chance to do a public beta because of 2k games and about how gameplay can be adjusted in coming patches. I'm tired of the bullnuts betatester non-disclosure influenced bullnuts replies about how deep this game is and about how you have to adapt. The fact is this game is geared towards the lesser player. You talk about depth, but a sign of depth is the gap between lesser and better players and the gap is very slim indeed. Maybe people like ozzyKP weren't any good at civ2 because it just didn't have the depth and strategy civ4 does? Now that there is depth and strategy suddenly everyone who sucked at the previous games is now a good player. I don't see Mp lasting a year because I'm not the only one on the ladder seeing this.

My response:


hahahahahaha!

Oh how i've missed this kind of entertainment. Its been years since Eyes has given me good laughs back in the civ2 days. This is just fantasitc!

The bigger the ego the harder the fall. ;D

His tech lead wasn't that huge. But yes, he did have a tech lead. As far as I could tell no muskets or anything like that. And yes, the map didn't have any horse or any copper. Mirror map, two iron on each side. Heh, I didn't even know what a mirror map was when I started, so he had a slight edge there at the beginning (i sent a scout to my left and met the map edge to my surprize)

So yea, I was the Aztecs and he was the Mali (that skirmisher is a damn nice unit, I had no idea). I spent much of the early game building a big stack of jaguar warriors (since I didn't have a whole lot of other options for units at that point), so I sent them on the slow trudge over to attack. Sadly that almost killed me. I had way too many units and too many cities and at one point I had to put science down to 0 and still was hemorraging money. I thought I was totally done for.

I sent a scout and a jag to his south to try and draw some of his units that way before I moved my stack in from the north. Plus I tried to move my stack far enough back to knock off some of his rear cities that were less defended, but no good, he had too much culture and was able to spot me too far out, plus my stack moved too damn slow. Worse yet I hadn't explored enough and I was a dumbass who still hadn't figured out the true nature of the mirror map so my stack popped up not at his rear but right at his well defended capitol.

Unforunately All the time I spent building those units he advanced in tech and had great anti-melee units to counter me, so I got totally f-ed up. My stack was destroyed, i pillaged a bit and then he killed them off.

Now, if I was Eyes (and I've played him enough over the years to know this) I would have just thrown in the towel right then, but I played the game out. Thankfully losing that big stack helped my budget a bit and I was able to start inventing again.

Also (to backtrack) while I was moving the stack I was so distressed about my lack of funds and the fact there wasn't anythign I could really build with my cities to help my financial situation I set my cities on building wonders just to keep them busy and stop them from making more units. So I got the pyramids and parthenon (Eyes got the oracle and maybe another two or so, i forget which).

I got a few more tech (finally got feudalism after like 25-30 turns, sheesh), and made a few longbowmen when his big stack of macemen and crossbowmen arrived. I drained all my cities (more or less) to defend the first city he came across and he wisely moved his stack around that city and headed to my less defended capitol.

I thought I was in trouble again, but I used the longbowmen (and a few remaining jaguars and axmen) in my lead city to attack some of his units and kill a few. For some reason (as far as I can tell) Eyes has some problem with building barracks, so his units weren't very well promoted which helped me out. Then once he placed his big stack next to my cap and was about to attack I slipped in my stack of D units from my other city into my capitol just in time to save the city from his stack. He lost a few in that attack and then I mopped up later.

So yes, my stack was completely obliterated, but so was his. Was my position more despirate? Perhaps. But if he was so far ahead, then he should have pressed his advantage and been able to beat me, but he didn't... I scrambled enough to force him back.

So at this point we had less than 30 turns left and I realized he just blew his wad and wouldn't be sending another stack my way. I realized this would be settled by score. So I jacked up my tech rate (and started getting all the cheap techs i missed earlier, now inventing a new one every turn) and I started making a bunch of settlers and started sticking them every where for the points. In the end I had more points.

So was it a glamourous win? No. Did I totally overpower and devestate him (ya know like I did in our first game)? No. Am I going to thump my chest and claim to be the greatest? No. Clearly I made lots of mistakes. BUT I WON. Not by accident either as he claims. Yes I made mistakes, but clearly he did as well. If I was playing so crappy, why didn't he destroy me? He only destroyed one city of mine(one turn after I founded it), one of my sleeze cities at the end. Oh, great accomplishment.

With the 20 or so games he's played for this ladder alone he clearly has more experience with the game than I do (I've only played two MP games, both victories against him, hehe), so one would think he'd know the point system. Honestly I didn't look at the points at all until he lost his stack, then I saw how many points were given for each thing and I started scrambling to get as many points as I could. For some reason he didn't do that. So he lost.

He can think up whatever excuses he wants or blame the game or say that it is made to allow "inferior players" the ability to beat "superior players". But honestly if he's so superior why do I keep beating him? If being "superior" isn't based on winning, what on earth is it based on?

No question he is good at civ2, better than me I admit, but I was always competitive and i've won plenty of games against him there. Each time you can be sure he was whining about it like now blaming the map, blaming luck, blaming anything he can think of.

And then, as now, I just enjoyed every minute of it. ;D

[Fried-Psitalon]

We should play one soon, Ozzy. I may even give you the report if I win, just because I enjoyed seeing you jam humble pie down his throat.

[OzzyKP]

That sounds like fun, I'm up for it. I'll probably get creamed, but I'll learn something out of it.

btw, the drama keeps getting better: http://civ4players.proboards44.com/i...ead=1131075110

[Fried-Psitalon]

Sadly, I'm blocked from that forum at work.

Anything I'll need to ban him for when I get home?

[OzzyKP]

Naw, just a lot of grandstanding, boasting, and throwing fits. Nothing out of the ordinary.

[drekmonger]

erm,

That StarlightDeath guy is throwing a fit over nothing, buh...

... In the fixed turn games (like cton ffa), the last few turns can be spent building up points like mad using whatever cheesy exploit...for example building a bunch of settlers and making a crap load of crappy cities at the very last turn. If the game were to continue past that turn, those cities would hurt your civilization more than help.

One possible fix is to grant far fewer points for Population 1 cities.

But really, it's a problem in the way the ladder games have been set up: the fixed turns are a stuipid idea that don't fit into the way Civ4 plays. Instead, victory should be based on other conditions...perhaps building a certain wonder should end the game?

[OzzyKP]

I agree drek. I think the point victory is pretty lame. But Eyes/StarlightDeath is the one that picked the settings. So if he didn't like that as a victory condition, he shouldn't have picked it.

[Fried-Psitalon]

Unfortunately, there's no easy way to say "the game ends now" fairly without a total victory.

Points is actually a decent way to do it; the problem is that other players don't know how to counter yet. Last-second city rushing is easily countered by simply having a few units near them, or on their border.

A "first wonder" win would simply be a flip of a Great Engineer; that's no better.

[OzzyKP]

I say just let the game go as long as it needs to till one person gives up or is eliminated.

[Snotty]

not too useful for an evening sit down session though. I would hate to lose every game to an American because they can just wait out the 5 hours before I have to get up to go to work.

While points is undesirable, as long as everyone knows the way it works then it is fair at least.

[OzzyKP]

Us Americans are clever bastards.

[Bosh]

damn, what a whiner. Good show Ozzy.

[Rasputin]

i so glad i dont play games like civilization for only a few hours.

i prefer the epic adventures and am not happy till i have played from 4000BC to modern times....

if that takes months to play so be it ...

[CanuckSoldier]

You could check out the Epic section of the Ladder Forums that is were we organize long multisession ladder MP games that play til there's a victory condition...or until you are completely destroyed We usually have a "no war" period for the first part of the game as well

CS

[ugignadl]

That is classic. I love it how CIV drastically cuts down on the number of unbalanced and exploitable tactics. I myself felt the pain, since exploitation was so easy in all the other civs. But it's a good pain! Glory to real strategy...

Thanks for the report.