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Look Ma! No religion!

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  • Look Ma! No religion!

    I finished my first game - Noble, small map (custom continents - 3 of 'em), 7 AI opponents, all other settings standard. I was Rome.

    I started on a continent shaped like a ] bracket. I was on the vertical part, Japan on the top horizontal, and America on the bottom horizontal. This worked out well for me, as I was able to establish cities (#s 2 & 3) near the top and bottom of my vertical area and effectively block Japanese and American expansion into my territory. I maintained closed borders as long as I could, until I had settled cities on almost all viable spots. Some foreign units did come scouting through before I plugged up all the holes, but thankfully no settlers.

    I also maintained good diplomatic contact with anyone I found or who found me. Politely turned down demands I thought weren't beneficial, then offered a reasonable trade in its place to mollify the AI. The only pain in the ass was Catherine the Great (though she looked fine) who at one point intimidated me enough into giving her some tribute (not much).

    At no point did I found any religions. In fact, I stayed away from any techs that would enable me to found any religions (I waited 'til the religions had already been founded, than researched or traded for that tech). Of course, some of my cities were inevitably infected by superstitious twaddle, but I refrained from ever building any temples or establishing a state religion. And I thrived anyway, being in 2nd place, then 1st, for most of the game.

    Cathy angrily demanded I adopt Buddhism at one point, but I declined and offered a more reasonable trade in it's place - she was mollified. That was the only time anyone tried to convert me by force. I also never saw any AI missionaries in my territory.

    I refrained from adopting any religious civics until I researched Liberalism and adopted Free Religion. That was my only nod to religion at all in the game.

    My reign was surprisingly peaceful as well. My army was always a decent size, owing to the fact that in the early ages I had to build something (couldn't build industry or research yet), so I built units. I never had too many units, but my border cities had a handful. I lost one city to the barbarians in the middle ages, got it back, then found a city they had taken from the Americans and conquered that too (turned out to be a damn good city in the end). That was my only combat for quite a while.

    As I said, I had tried to keep on good relations with everyone, even Catherine, with a fair measure of success. Even when the AI complained I was trading with an enemy I was able to soothe jangled nerves by a nice trade offer. However, in the early part of the 20th century, Japan tried to invade. They declared war, sent some knights in and started pillaging. I persuaded Cathy to declare war on Japan by offering her Mass Media (even though she kinda liked Japan, though wasn't allied), and she began to harry Japan's flanks, taking some pressure off me. I had a good tech lead over Japan (I was in 1st place, Japan in last) so I killed marauders when I could, built up infantry and machine gunners, and defended myself 'til I had tanks and bombers. Then I destroyed all reachable infrastructure and conquered Tokyo. Then I offered him peace for all his gold & some old techs I didn't have yet. I had lost no units, but a fair amount of tile improvements. Still in first place.

    I was going for a diplo victory, since most everyone liked me, so I built the UN and was voted as initial Sec Gen. I was in 1st place pointwise, Persia in 2nd and Mali in 3rd. Mali was building SS parts, so I was trying to get the diplo win. All my resolutions passed (Free Religion, Open Trade, etc.) but missed being voted permanent Sec Gen twice by a few points. If I could persuade one more civ to back me I would win. Just as I was gearing up to shower some recalcitrant civs with cash and techs, Mali launched their spaceship and won. I still was 1st pointwise (3377 or so, to Persia's 3095 or so), but Mali reached the stars.

    A good first game. Technical issues were minor - choppy sound during wonder movies, some choppiness in diplo animations, and some sluggishness when zoomed out. Nothing I can't easily live with.

    I was pleased at the number of units I had. I was sort of expecting to have very few units, and I had a reasonable amount (though fewer than the Civ3 stacks o' doom). Promotions are cool, a nice addition to the combat model.

    Didn't get to do much spying, just checked out Japanese cities after the war to see if they were rebuilding their armies. I should have sent them to Mali to delay SS production. Live and learn.

    I guess I was happiest that I didn't need to incorporate religion, that I could flourish without adopting or using it. Different games will give different results, I'm sure, but it's nice to know I almost won over the entire world despite being a bastion of secularism.

    Hail Augustus! Hail Rome!
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Nice one! I like what I'm hearing about the flexibility of the AI as far as diplomacy is concerned.

    Thx for this insight into your game. I'm drooling over here! 6 more days...

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    • #3
      Nice empire there I'm trying to go "religionless" in my current game too. I could make far more gold if I adopted one, spread it around, and built temples but it deosen't seem like that big of a deal as I still lead in points. Only on Noble though. It might be very hard to have an edge over the AI w/o religion on higher levels.

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      • #4
        Why do you guys not want religion?

        I think it's an essential part of history and also rewarding in this game. In my first games I made it very important.

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        • #5
          lol, I'm not about to play every single game without religion. It's just an experiment. Seems to be so far that the more advanced tech gets the easier it is to cope without it but you still miss out on gobs of cash.

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          • #6
            Btw, does anybody know what the color in the box means where the city size is displayed? I couldn't find this information anywhere or I missed it (I read throught the manual already).
            E.g. In the screenie above, Neapolis is turquoise, Antium is pink and Rome is white.

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            • #7
              I think the colors are the growth of the city.
              white = stagnate
              green = growing
              red= starving

              idk for sure...

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              • #8
                Good read. thanks for the "war-report"

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sartaq
                  I think the colors are the growth of the city.
                  white = stagnate
                  green = growing
                  red= starving

                  idk for sure...
                  indeed!

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                  • #10
                    See!

                    If god had been on your side you wouldn't have merely done good, you would have won.

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                    • #11
                      ajbera, how do you name landmarks (like Mt. Vesuvius)
                      First Master, Banan-Abbot of the Nana-stary, and Arch-Nan of the Order of the Sacred Banana.
                      Marathon, the reason my friends and I have been playing the same hotseat game since 2006...

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                      • #12
                        you can name landmarks in world builder

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                        • #13
                          You can also name them from the "Strategy Layer" at the Global View (just zoom way out).

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                          • #14
                            Spreading religion via missionaries seems to me, to be a little bit of micro-managing (MM). I guess it's not too bad though. Not like 50 workers all on manual.
                            Let Them Eat Cake

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                            • #15
                              Glad you folks are enjoying my AAR. I like religion, think it's a great new feature, but I wanted to see how critical it was for success. That I got so far (and I could've won had I done things slightly differently diplomatically) without adopting a state religion or using it as a "weapon" is a testament to how balanced a feature it is, and how excellent a game Civ4 is.

                              Next game is gonna be a Buddhist theocratic Indian police state, I think.

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