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  • threadbare review

    I played Civ4 for about 5 hours last night--not long enough to really do a proper review, but I will give some first impressions. If you want to read no more, the bottom line is, so far, it's tentatively POSITIVE.

    I run a 3-year old system: P4 1.8 ghz @ 2.0 ghz, 512 mb ram, 64 mb GeForce3 card. It meets Firaxis "recommended" specs almost to a tee.

    ICS comments, see 5e
    AI city spamming, see 5c
    overall impression so far, see 6

    1) I would say you will want at least a 2 ghz machine with 512 ram and 64 mb video card to run Civ4 properly. If you have less, you'll have to turn down the graphics options to get what is, in my opinion, acceptable performance from the 3D engine. Grant you, this is with very limited testing, and tweaking, so the jury is still out. Most of you have faster than 2.0 ghz systems though, right??

    2) Major :thumbsup: to Firaxis and the team for making this game "feel" like Civ1. They even brought back the Russians music from Civ1! Outstanding!

    3) The AI's attitude toward you, and the reason why they feel that way, is made VERY clear to you in Civ4. I like that. And in my opin, the REASONS why an AI civ has a certain attitude toward your civ are very logical, coherent reasons. Unlike Civ3, where the AI could hate your guts the whole rest of the game over some minor border incursion you did in 500 BC.

    3a) in a similar vein, the AI won't just declare war on you for nothing. Generally, you kind of half know when it's coming (at least so far this has been my experience). They don't seem to move units into your territory and as per RoP rape like they did in Civ3.

    4) The background music is right on; it doesn't get in your way while playing, and, well, it's good. I noticed no "obscene drumbeat" in the ancient times, as some have complained about. Perhaps all of this will change as I hear the same music over and over...

    4a) unit movement is very easy, it's much like prev ver's of Civ, with use of the numpad keys, go-to command, etc. You don't seem to be able to right-click on a tile/city//unit to view a menu of all the units there, though...this has me a little confused...

    5) The startup video's sound and gfx were choppy on my system; but again that's very preliminary; I could have had some firewall interference or some background process running to hamper it. More testing needed. Besides, the game itself ran fine, it was only the intro vid that had chop and sound cutting out. Surely my SB Audigy2 is not too old hardware for this...
    **anyone else have this problem with the startup vid?

    5a) this game, in my limited testing, seems very complex enough. People worried that Civ would be "dumbed down". I would say, no way man. Granted, when you first play a new ver of Civ, it always takes me a while to get a handle on the city screens, for example, so I'm sure after a few more games it will be less complex.

    5b) worker automation seems pretty good, the workers seem to do just fine. I've always been a MM'er of workers in Civ3 so I'm sure I will learn how to best optimize my cities radius of prod. for the situation...but until then I can be content with the automation.

    5c) Is the AI spamming cities dead? Doesn't appear so...the AI declared war on me, sacked and burned one of my cities, and before I could build a new settler to re-build there, the AI had already plopped down a settler of their own there. :thumbsdown:
    To make a long story short, here's some strat advice, that was also good in Civ3: If ya can, keep a spare settler around for this situation.

    5d) In Civ4, PROTECT YOUR CITIES. In Civ3, I could get away with interior cities being garrison-less. Perhaps I'll get that in Civ4, but so far I have not had a large enough empire to know.

    5e) ICS comments. Well, all I can say so far is that my little Roman empire only had/has 5 cities, and most of the AI civs have between 5 and 15 cities. But guess what, I am keeping up fairly well. In Civ3, I'd be stone dead by now (1750 AD). Yes, I'm in last place out of 6 of 7 known civs, but not by much. (Hey, it's my first game, cut me some slack...)

    6) I had FUN playing for those 5 hours. I played the Romans on NOBLE level (which is equivalent of Regent in Civ3) and so far, I've made it to 1750 AD and have survived. hehehe. And I am an experienced Civ player going back to 1992. In fact I was a better Civ1 and 2 player than Civ3, which I never truly mastered. Trust me folks, there is a lot of new stuff to learn in this iteration of Civ.

    6a) Gotta love Leonard Nimoy's voice on the techs. I wonder if the foreign-language versions have him speaking French, German, etc.?

    more l8r...
    Let Them Eat Cake

  • #2
    Nice objective report

    You don't seem to be able to right-click on a tile/city//unit to view a menu of all the units there, though...this has me a little confused...

    You still can, go to the options menu and choose "right-click something".

    sacked and burned one of my cities, and before I could build a new settler to re-build there, the AI had already plopped down a settler of their own there. :thumbsdown:

    Sure you're not mad cause the AI beat you to it?
    Sounds like well played from the AI's side.

    I played the Romans on NOBLE level

    Sounds like you did pretty well for your first game, you'll soon get the hang of things.
    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing?
    Then why call him God? - Epicurus

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    • #3
      Re: threadbare review

      5c) Is the AI spamming cities dead? Doesn't appear so...the AI declared war on me, sacked and burned one of my cities, and before I could build a new settler to re-build there, the AI had already plopped down a settler of their own there. :thumbsdown:
      To make a long story short, here's some strat advice, that was also good in Civ3: If ya can, keep a spare settler around for this situation.
      Very well played from the AI side. If they just took your city, it would be in resistence. It would have war weariness while they're at war with you. Raze and rebuild is an acceptable alternative.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: threadbare review

        Originally posted by Mace
        5e) ICS comments. Well, all I can say so far is that my little Roman empire only had/has 5 cities, and most of the AI civs have between 5 and 15 cities. But guess what, I am keeping up fairly well. In Civ3, I'd be stone dead by now (1750 AD). Yes, I'm in last place out of 6 of 7 known civs, but not by much. (Hey, it's my first game, cut me some slack...)
        5 cities at 1750 AD??? Hmmm...What size map are you playing? Is the map filled up with cities, or are there patched of open land?

        Either REX/ICS is totally dead and impossible to do, or the game mechanics do suppport small empires as a viable gameplay option.
        Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
        ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by alva
          Sure you're not mad cause the AI beat you to it?
          Sounds like well played from the AI's side.
          I am mad, but impressed at the ruthlessness How dare the AI do what I have always done. It is well played by the AI.
          Let Them Eat Cake

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          • #6
            Re: Re: threadbare review

            Originally posted by hexagonian 5 cities at 1750 AD??? Hmmm...What size map are you playing? Is the map filled up with cities, or are there patched of open land?
            Normal size map. By this time (1750) there are really no open patches, as cultural bounds have pushed out. Well hex I did have 7-8 cities at my height, BUT keep in mind that you cannot push out your borders by founding a city on the edges as per Civ3. So far in my experience it will not work very well for long. The AI civ's culture tends to eventually surround, and absorb your city. And I had a better-than-average culture.

            This also produces a negative to relations with that civ. It is something like, "Our close borders strain our relations", and is a -1 to relations.

            Originally posted by hexagonian
            Either REX/ICS is totally dead and impossible to do, or the game mechanics do suppport small empires as a viable gameplay option.
            Or, Mace doesn't know what he's doing and made a mistake by not REXing enough. Or, Mace is a master player for being able to survive with just 5 cities on Noble level in his first game.

            In all seriousness, in Civ4, it appears (in my limited experience) that rexing is more of a gradual thing...you expand through the game as you can afford it, not so much all at the beginning.

            I expanded at the proper rate at first, but then I stopped, and the AI civs went from 5-8 cities like me, to 10-12 cities. But certainly, it appears a true Civ3-esque REX is gone, or extremely difficult to play. I'll know more later, I'm sure. It's replaced with GX, which is "gradual expansion"...not early, not late, just seems like throughout the early and mid game.
            Let Them Eat Cake

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Re: Re: threadbare review

              Originally posted by Mace
              Normal size map. By this time (1750) there are really no open patches, as cultural bounds have pushed out. Well hex I did have 7-8 cities at my height, BUT keep in mind that you cannot push out your borders by founding a city on the edges as per Civ3. So far in my experience it will not work very well for long. The AI civ's culture tends to eventually surround, and absorb your city. And I had a better-than-average culture.
              So culture flipping is still in? That was a very polarizing feature for a lot of players. I was not too crazy about it myself either.

              Can the feature be turned off/on???

              I'd favor a less drastic measure (gradual emigration or ongoing hammer/food/gold transfers from weak culture cities to strong culture civs)

              Still, it appears that it is hard to build a lot of cities in a quick time. You could also call it MG (Managed Growth)
              Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
              ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

              Comment


              • #8
                4a. If you Shift-Click on a stack of units, you'll get a popup menu that allows you to select one, select all, fortify/sleep all. Also, the mousewheel will cycle through all the units in a tile that you have selected.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Re: Re: Re: threadbare review

                  Originally posted by hexagonian So culture flipping is still in? That was a very polarizing feature for a lot of players. I was not too crazy about it myself either.

                  Can the feature be turned off/on???
                  Yes the OPTION to allow flipping is in.

                  I don't see why it was so "polarizing" considering the fact that a person could simply turn flips OFF in Civ3 if they did not like them.

                  I am pretty sure that it can be turned off the same way in Civ4.

                  Originally posted by hexagonian I'd favor a less drastic measure (gradual emigration or ongoing hammer/food/gold transfers from weak culture cities to strong culture civs)
                  Actually, it is neater in Civ4...and it does seem to take into account emigration....in my limited experience, a city just doesn't "flip" all the sudden...it is gradual and pretty predictable.

                  The first thing that happened to me is the AI civ's borders gradually began encroaching around the city. Then eventually the AI civ's borders completely ENVELOP your city. (when that happens, you say, "oh no", heheh).

                  Finally, you get the message, "There are Malinese riots in Pisae!!!". And guess what, a few turns later, Pisae flipped to the Malinese. But it's not like I wasn't warned...the AI border enveloping Pisae was warning enough, but the game went on later to tell me that there were Malinese riots there.

                  I can't tell if I lost my garrison units in the flip. I think I lost them though.

                  You can also look to see what % of another civ are in your cities. In other words, Pisae started out being 100% Roman, but it was right next to the Malinese Empire. Over time, Malinese immigrants came into Pisae and eventually Pisae was 40% Roman and 60% Malinese....so you can guess what happened eventually.

                  Originally posted by hexagonian Still, it appears that it is hard to build a lot of cities in a quick time. You could also call it MG (Managed Growth)
                  Yeah that is a good term for it. The growth seems more "ordered" and there is less necessity to REX early. More emphasis on gradual expansion over time.
                  Let Them Eat Cake

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have now finished this game and can recap.

                    1) I ended up finishing 4th of 7 civs on Noble level. I'll probably laugh about that in a few months but hey.

                    2) I only had to fight TWO wars in the whole 6000 years of history. I did not go warmongering as I was not comfortable with the combined arms fighting in Civ4, but I fought enough to get a feel for it, and the promotions.

                    3) I did notice one thing about the AI in war. If they think you're weak, they will keep fighting you, and reject demands for peace. I had to fight the Malinese for a looong time before I finally killed enough of their Knights to convince them it was fruitless. I noticed this also with the Civ3 AI.

                    4) In Civ4 it seems to be easier to "repair" your relations with an AI civ than it was in Civ3. Back in Civ3, if you messed over or fought an AI civ in 500 BC, they would pretty much hate you the rest of the game. Not so in Civ4.

                    5) The Great Lighthouse wonder movie caused a CTD (crash to desktop) on my machine...
                    Let Them Eat Cake

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: threadbare review

                      Originally posted by Mace I don't see why it was so "polarizing" considering the fact that a person could simply turn flips OFF in Civ3 if they did not like them.
                      It was one of those things that was not an option in original civ3, but was changed in the xpacks. The whole flip issue was also annoying because players could lose a lot of garrison units through that feature. (and in freshly conquered cities, this could put the brakes on expansion)

                      There were a lot of players who turned it off. I was one of them. I felt it was a little heavy-handed.



                      Originally posted by Mace I can't tell if I lost my garrison units in the flip. I think I lost them though.
                      I thought I saw somewhere that a flipped city does not lose the garrisons, but they are transferred to the capitol city of origin. This helps make it more bearable. I think the report was on Sulla's walkthrough.



                      Originally posted by Mace You can also look to see what % of another civ are in your cities. In other words, Pisae started out being 100% Roman, but it was right next to the Malinese Empire. Over time, Malinese immigrants came into Pisae and eventually Pisae was 40% Roman and 60% Malinese....so you can guess what happened eventually.
                      Did you make any attempt to reverse the process? Are there ways to stop it once you reach a certain point or is it basically too late by then? Does the city flip when it hits 100% rival civ population?
                      Last edited by hexagonian; October 28, 2005, 15:41.
                      Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
                      ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

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                      • #12
                        screenies next time?

                        nice review btw
                        anti steam and proud of it

                        CDO ....its OCD in alpha order like it should be

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          threadbare review

                          Originally posted by hexagonian Did you make any attempt to reverse the process? Are there ways to stop it once you reach a certain point or is it basically too late by then? Does the city flip when it hits 100% rival civ population?
                          First of all I'd say it's less of a "flip" as it is a "metamorphosis"....a gradual flip. And yes, I can confirm that you can disable culture flipping in the start options.

                          Well, in this game, the Mali, my neighbors to the east, were the #1 civ--I was about #7 at the time...and even though I had a pretty good culture, I was still outdone by the Mali in that regard. I'm sure that had something to do with that flip--plus the fact that Pisae was right next to the Mali border. I founded it there to try a Civ3-style border pushback.

                          I tried to stop the process, but I could not. I don't yet know if a courthouse helps in this regard in Civ4. I'm sure culture-improvements also help. I tried to build some but to no avail. Also I tried garrisoning a few extra units there in the hope that this would also hold the city for me. I saw it happening over 20-30 turns...likely if I was a better Civ4 player I would have been able to hold things better...

                          First of all, in Civ4 it looks like you can move your mouse over a tile and the game will show you what % of that tile is of the nationality who owns the tile. Why is that important? Because it allows you to see what % of your city is Roman, for example. Pisae was not 100% Mali population when it flipped...because later I moved my mouse over the city and it showed as only being about 90% Malinese population. The other 10% must have been Roman....I'll have to check that some more, my memory is a little fuzzy on the flip and I've only experienced it that one time.

                          Hint: Pikemen are GREAT against mounted units like Knights. I killed off 3/4 of the Malinese army using Pikes, and they didn't want any more of me after that.
                          Let Them Eat Cake

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Platypus Rex
                            screenies next time?
                            I'll try. This game was not worth screenies, IMO.

                            Originally posted by Platypus Rex nice review btw
                            I type too much. Internet forums are "short attention span theater"--few people read past the first paragraph.
                            Let Them Eat Cake

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mace
                              I type too much. Internet forums are "short attention span theater"--few people read past the first paragraph.
                              When dealing with civ4, no post is too long (especially for those who do not have the game yet)

                              We have to live vicariously though you.
                              Yes, let's be optimistic until we have reason to be otherwise...No, let's be pessimistic until we are forced to do otherwise...Maybe, let's be balanced until we are convinced to do otherwise. -- DrSpike, Skanky Burns, Shogun Gunner
                              ...aisdhieort...dticcok...

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