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  • #16
    and by the way... the fashion around the millennium change of not grading students because they come under pressure is also pretty much passť in modern teaching science. while it still is true that some kids cannot deal with pressure and suffer under being graded worse than the others, people now see that those kids still suffer. just instead of getting a bad mark, they notice that they are performing miserably and the other kids notice that even more.

    and at a university we aspire excellence. universities are not for the weak. you'll only survive it if you have either the brains and/or the energy to study a lot (in many countries "having money" is a third option). at AU we belong to the best. even the worst players here (i will probably be among them) are willing to play and learn. that is already more than the vast majority of players out there, NOT participating.

    my point is: please do not torpedoe an idea just because you don't like it. if you don't want to be amongst the scorers, just say so. but let those who want to see some fruits of their labour (besides learning to play the game better) see it...

    thanks
    - Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity
    - Atheism is a nonprophet organization.

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    • #17
      let's just not call it "scoring system" but more something like "hall of honour"... like in a real university where all professors have their heads in marble or names along a wall.
      Rather than scoring and points and hall of honour, why not stick with our University theme?

      Did you complete the course? Yes? You get credit. Someone can maintain a list/post of those that completed the course.
      Did you audit the course, either by playing and not sharing or reading everyone's DARs even though you didn't/couldn't play? You get an audit credit, also on the list/post.

      Done.

      Additional "credits" can be "earned" by "teaching" a course(being the one to create/organize a game), maybe being a TA(assisting with all the administrativia that goes with running the courses and the AU itself) to also be noted on the post/list.

      Basically, AU is pretty much just based on participation. Some participate more than others in various ways, but in the end, I feel, you either participate or you don't. You get credit, audit, or none.

      I don't really feel anything else is required, and anything like "funniest DAR" or "most innovative strategy" would either be chosen by fiat or voted on. One way could be seen as unfair, the other a pain to implement. 20+ students? a whole bunch of big polls for "best whatever". That, or we have to have a nomination process, so a non-poll poll followed by a poll. Or, the instructor just picks one.

      I also really dislike the idea that jimbob playing "down" a level to Emperor would get more points than joejoe stretching himself by a level to Monarch. It's not what level you play or even how good you are. It's that you participate and that either you learn something or someone learns from you.

      For these reasons, if we must have some sort of scoring, I think it should be trinary. No credit, Audit credit, or Credit. Skip the course, audit the course, or participate in the course. Anything else, IMO, would lead towards a more GotM environment, especially when you give someone that wins the game more credit than someone that learns something really important from defeat, or someone that slums it by a level or two gets more credit than a brand new student moving up a difficulty level or two, or that someone who is a really good fictionalist gets more points than someone that sticks to the facts, or ...

      I ramble.
      Basically, I'd try my best to ignore the points system, because if I want to compare myself against other players, I'd be playing the GotM.

      if you don't want to be amongst the scorers, just say so. but let those who want to see some fruits of their labour (besides learning to play the game better) see it...
      Isn't this counter to the whole point of the AU?
      "Just once, do me a favor, don't play Gray, don't even play Dark... I want to see Center-of-a-Black-Hole Side!!! " - Theseus nee rpodos

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      • #18
        I really like your "credits" idea, Ducki. It's a very "best of both worlds solution." Awarding participation and completion rather than skill gives rewards to those who try, but doesn't scare off "lesser" players who may feel they never have a chance to earn points against the "experts."
        I make movies. Come check 'em out.

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        • #19
          Double post.
          Last edited by TheArsenal; November 8, 2005, 15:40.
          "Guess what? I got a fever! And the only prescription is ... more cow bell!"

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          • #20
            Perceived competitive pressure in a game where you can just open up an editor and tweak it, is a recipe for disaster. All learning value is lost.

            Credits is a nice idea though.
            "Guess what? I got a fever! And the only prescription is ... more cow bell!"

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            • #21
              I don't know that there seems to even be any perceive competitive pressure there as none of the point-scoring goals are related to game performance. On the other hand, I don't see the need for a scoring system. There are some minor incentives for participation, but since the incentives are all intangible the only ones it will motivate are those who would be likely to participate regardless.

              It's not that I think it would be counter-productive, just not particularly productive and would probably end up in quite a bit of effort expended on bookkeeping.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by QuestGAV
                It's not that I think it would be counter-productive, just not particularly productive and would probably end up in quite a bit of effort expended on bookkeeping.
                In the end, I guess the person(s) to decide whether there is a scoring system and how complex it is should be the one(s) who are going to maintain it.

                Frankly, I'm not too bothered either way, but I do want to get started sooner than later!

                *nudge, nudge*

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                • #23
                  Yeah, it's just easier to bite off more than you can chew when setting up systems like this. There's a natural tendency for people to burn out when doing things like this for fun and I think it happens alot faster when you add to the workload. It goes from labor of love to burden fairly quickly. Setting up an overcomplicated system that doesn't add a whole lot of value to the AU effort as a whole would make it seem likely that the AU "staff" rotates through more quickly.

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                  • #24
                    this is all you need



                    print them and tack them to your wall
                    anti steam and proud of it

                    CDO ....its OCD in alpha order like it should be

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                    • #25
                      Listen to QuestGAV and his words of wisdom. If you have ever run a large online clan, you will know exactly how a few small things can add to a lot of work and lead to eventual burn out. "Keep it simple" is the best policy.

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                      • #26
                        Hey UglyElmo! Glad to see you found AU.
                        "Stuie has the right idea" - Japher
                        "I trust Stuie and all involved." - SlowwHand
                        "Stuie is right...." - Guynemer

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                        • #27
                          I've thought about the idea of a credit system myself, but didn't bring up the idea because I think it would be discouraging to latecomers and to people who choose not to play AU games with themes that aren't fun for them.

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                          • #28
                            Starting a course = 1 beer
                            Completing a tile improvement = 1 beer
                            Discovering a Tech = 1 beer
                            Building a city improvement = 1 beer
                            Not puking on your keyboard = 1 beer
                            Getting a Great Person = 1 beer
                            Building a city = 1 beer
                            Having your wife ask if you've been playing all night and ARE YOU DRUNK! = 1 beer
                            Battle Victory = 1 beer
                            Rembering to stop and write a DAR = 1 shot Tequila
                            Finishing a Course = Alcohol Posioning

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                            • #29
                              Howdy Stuie. It doesn't take me too long to find all the fun spots for a new game. I have just started hosting my first CivIV PBEM game and once the patch is out and my online connection to Gamespy is fixed, I will haunt the MP lobby as well.

                              Looking forward to beginning my Freshman year of AU higher education.

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                              • #30
                                I vote Nay to scorekeeping. Ya hear? Nay!
                                Diplogamer formerly known as LzPrst

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