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What to do with AU?

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  • #16
    I read a lot of the AU for Civ 3 way back when. It was a blast to read and fun to play the games, even if I never really did any writeups. I look forward to AU for Civ 4, and would like to respond to a couple of the original questions...

    I love the AU mod for Civ 3 (still use it as default whenever I load back up). I consider it a cut above vanilla Civ 3 while feeling like the same game. It's perfect for what it intends to be.

    I don't think, however, than the first set of courses should be run on the mod. If you really want people to learn Civ 4 with AU help, rather than just refine and master it as happened with Civ 3, then you have to start out with a course in Vanilla. After several courses people will have tons of modding ideas that will fit with AU ideals and that work can begin. Then the AU courses can fit the dual purpose of teaching and testing the mod out one or two changes at a time.

    About the philosophy... well it's the reason I love the Civ 3 mod so much.

    - Improve the AI.
    - Present the player with more strategic decisions.
    - Change as little as possible, to preserve the unmodded Civ3 flavor.
    - Preserve historical accuracy.
    - Reduce micromanagement.
    I recall from reading the threads that 1 and 2 are the big ones. A change to reduce micromanagement was only allowed if it helped the AI or was AI netural, right? And as I remember, the goal to preserve historical accuracy was used more as a way to curb other changes than to implement new ones. Assuming that micromangement is not an issue (as we've been led to believe) and there are no huge historical gaffes. The open modding that Civ 4 allows could mean that the AU mod could be nothing more than AI script writing and program refinements? This is because you don't have to do things like make archers more valuable because the AI used to build them too much when they were weaker, or decrease the power of a building that humans always build and AIs never do to help balance.

    That just might be my favorite thing to see... an AU mod that changes nothing except the AI. It perfectly fits the two golden AU rules, right? If a human knows that doing this will always win because the AI does that the solution is not to beef or nerf this or that, but write an AI routine to handle both.

    If a year from now I can load an AU mod that has leaders mimicing the (non-exploitative - see "preserve the original") behaviors of the best AU players when they have that leader, on that kind of map, next to that kind of neighbor, I'd be very happy.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Lord Nuclear
      Is anyone interested in leading the AI project? I imagine the job will be running the AI contest, organizing the main AI project, contributing to the programming, and advertising the project.
      well, i guess as i proposed that contest, your question was meant for me
      yep, that would be fine for me, although leading is the other question: i was mostly much more conservative with my opinion for the changes in the C3C AUmod, so obviously was not with the "flow" of the majority of the panelists and non-panel members.

      but ok, i am willing to do stuff there
      - Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity
      - Atheism is a nonprophet organization.

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      • #18
        Did anyone else think of Automated Units when they saw the thread title?

        So what´s this University thingie now then?
        I love being beaten by women - Lorizael

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        • #19
          zoidberg: check out the civ3-AU forum
          - Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity
          - Atheism is a nonprophet organization.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Dr Zoidberg
            Did anyone else think of Automated Units when they saw the thread title?

            So what´s this University thingie now then?
            How could you possibly have missed two threads about the AU, and a whole forum?

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            • #21
              (bump) before it slips to the 2nd page.

              so what's the to-do list? here some thoughts (in no particular order):

              A) finding volunteers who will manage various things.

              B) generating the first AU course... imho should be ready before x-mas time when people have more time.

              C) IF we need an AU mod, possibly including the AI improvement contest, we'd need a panel or at least discuss what decision board is intended...

              D) advertise AU. this point keeps coming up and somehow never can be solved

              E) wikipedia / strategy collection. i sent a message to MarkG, but no answer on topic Wikipedia (yet)

              F) finding a "value & honour system" solution following dominae's original first post.
              - Artificial Intelligence usually beats real stupidity
              - Atheism is a nonprophet organization.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by sabrewolf
                D) advertise AU. this point keeps coming up and somehow never can be solved
                AU need a dedicated PR person that can go to any/all known Civ forums and post when there are major AU events - new courses, new mod, etc. A balance needs to be maintained however, so as not to "spam" the other forums.

                Just so there's no confusion, I am not volunteering to do this. Just pointing out what's needed.
                "Stuie has the right idea" - Japher
                "I trust Stuie and all involved." - SlowwHand
                "Stuie is right...." - Guynemer

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Lord Nuclear


                  How could you possibly have missed two threads about the AU, and a whole forum?
                  There´s a AU forum?

                  Yes I will check it out
                  I love being beaten by women - Lorizael

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Stuie


                    AU need a dedicated PR person that can go to any/all known Civ forums and post when there are major AU events - new courses, new mod, etc. A balance needs to be maintained however, so as not to "spam" the other forums.

                    Just so there's no confusion, I am not volunteering to do this. Just pointing out what's needed.
                    Good idea. If anyone is interested, please contact me as soon as possible.

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                    • #25
                      Lurkered my way through the Civ III AU

                      Would like to participate in the Civ IV AU

                      This is forming up nicely.

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                      • #26
                        *pokes life in this thread again*

                        Well. Before we decide what to mod in or not, perhaps we should get a little feeling for the game itself first.
                        A coupple of basic courses on various difficulties with some diffrent map settings and civs would be fine for a start. For me anyway =) (just a week to go now)
                        Proud member of the PNY Brigade
                        Also a proud member of the The Glory Of War team on PtW-DG

                        A.D 300, after 5h of playing DonHomer said: "looks like civ2 could be a good way to kill time if i can get the hang of it :P"

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                        • #27
                          I have to agree with Ennet.

                          Lets start slow and use the first few AU courses as sort of an overview of CIV.

                          It could even be done with an eye to the veteran Civ3 player as well as to the newcomer to Civ.

                          Since we're starting off right at launch, I think this could be a huge resource for all players of all skill levels.

                          BTW, I like the wiki idea -- everyone can post/edit while the AU Profs have full control. Between the quality of posts as well as the AARs from the AU Games, a wiki would start filling up fast.


                          T

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Ennet
                            Well. Before we decide what to mod in or not...
                            I wouldn't worry; AU modding is a very slow and deliberative process. Changes are only made when they make sense, and making sense can only be gleaned through playing the game first.
                            "Stuie has the right idea" - Japher
                            "I trust Stuie and all involved." - SlowwHand
                            "Stuie is right...." - Guynemer

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                            • #29
                              Count me in!

                              Let's start by playing a thematic single-player game as soon as possible, and all the rest will follow...

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Dr Zoidberg
                                Did anyone else think of Automated Units when they saw the thread title?

                                So what´s this University thingie now then?

                                I thought he had mistyped and meant:

                                What to do with AI?

                                The AU sounds interesting though.

                                What type of player did the civ3 AU attract? Were they experienced players wanting a challenge or beginers trying to learn the basics or a mixture?

                                Also did beginers stay or tend to drift away?
                                Last edited by Harrier UK; October 21, 2005, 08:18.
                                "What if somebody gave a war and nobody came?" Allen Ginsberg

                                "Opinions are like arses, everyone has one." Anon

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