Jon's Epic 24 DAR

[joncnunn]

Since it's been so long since there's been offical courses over here, I decided to go ahead and play RB's past Epic 24 Pax America as a shadow and post it over here.

http://realmsbeyond.net/civ/c4tourney/epic24.html

It's a shadow since:
1. Their deadline for submittal on their site was March 22nd. I just started it today.
2. Naturally I'm playing it on BTS 3.19 instead of BTS 3.17.
3. I'm playing it using Better AI 0.78B.
4. I'm not going to use their complicated scoring system, but instead am going to try to abide by the principles it seems designed to encourage.

[joncnunn]

The Ancient Era: Thru 1000 BC

My decisions to use both my starting warrior and my first build (a warrior) as a scout paid great dividends; Mining, Writing, and a bunch of gold.

I decided to build the Great Wall both as my first wonder and also before any settlers. On a huge map with only 8 opponents there's going to be a lot more barbs than normal, so let's have the extra barbs pop towns & units poping up on this landmass (as well as the random event barbs) go after one of the AIs. Well, the designer turned off random events but still.

By the time I got around to researching Mystism, I figured Stonehenge was a lost cause so didn't compete for that. 5 turns later I was proved right.
Temple of Artemis just looked to darn expensive to go after with this few hammers (especally because I didn't yet have Bronze Working), so even though the designer seemed in the score to really want people to get this I decided to defer it indefinitely.

Oracle looked tasty though, especally considering the Arabs had founded Buddhism, and unknown civ Hinduism, and the Babylons Judaism.

I chose Code of Laws for Confucianism + Court Houses.

[joncnunn]

The Classical Era: 1000 BC to 225 AD

I started out the era by triguring a Golden Age with the Great Spy I had earlier aquired. This allowed me to adopt Confucism and switch to H.R., Caste System, and Org Religion all on the same turn.

A few more wonders I didn't compete for were completed by the AIs.

Techwise, I researched Math, then Currency, and started the Calendar.

This era was cut short though when I got a Great Phophet. Theology was too good to pass up for free considering that Christanity hadn't been founded yet, so I spent a few turns researching Mediation to clear it and then lightblubed it entering the Midevil Era.

[joncnunn]

Midevil Era Part 1: 225 AD to 1020 AD

In 580 AD Built the Hanging Gardens in Washington. This caused some temporary unhappiness until some resources came online, but was worth it for the pop bonus.

In 960 AD Built the Shadawon Paga in Washington and switched to Free Religion early; the plan here is to stay out of the religious wars over here.


In techs, I ended up paralleling the Babylonians a few turns behind starting the Calendar a turn after they finished it, Aestics a turn before they finished it, Literature after they already had it, ahead of them in Music but they seem to have beaten me to that as well. To add insult to injury, they appear to have used that Great Artist to put cultural pressure on my (so far at least) only coastal city. The Babs also appear to have used the Great Scientist a few turns before then to be granted Philosophy and Taoism. This means the other landmass will end up united behind a single religion unless someone over there reaches Divine Right before anyone over here. Next I researched the tech allowing forges.

My people have done a better than average job this game at discovering new resources, fairly early they discovered a new Gem resource and while I was in the middle of building the Shadawon Paga they discovered a new Gold resource.

Note it's obvious on the more detailed level the Babs have a city just east of my coastal one along with several more but at the moment I can't spare a unit being used to prevent riots to update my maps.

[Iamjohn]

Any progress?

Here's a report from another person if your curious.

[joncnunn]

Here's the notes I have thru 1220 AD:

In 1070 AD Used a Great Phophet for the Confucian Shrine; this greatly increased my income.

In 1150 AD switched to Bur + Serfdom; with the amount of jungle coming in I can use Serfdom more tan Caste System. Bur was a major help to the capital and will be net positive for quite some time.

In 1200 AD Built the Haga Sophia in Washington. I had correctly guessed I was way too late to try to succesfuly build The Mausoliua. In addition all this jungle coming in makes faster workers more important than the other wonder choices.

It seems the main disadvantage of this start is I may be last on my landmass to find out about the other landmass. Can't really be helped with the only coastal city having had it's forest pouched. But on this landmass, so far at least I'm well on my way to a "time victory".

[ZargonX]

Well it's certainly been a while since there's been life here! I've been off 'Poly for quite a while now, as you might guess, but if people want the AU resurrected, I think I could probably oblige!

[joncnunn]

Midevil After 1020 AD

In 1070 AD Used a Great Phophet for the Confucian Shrine; this greatly increased my income.

In 1150 AD switched to Bur + Serfdom; with the amount of jungle coming in I can use Serfdom more than Caste System. Bur was a major help to the capital and will be net positive for quite some time.

In 1200 AD Built the Haga Sophia in Washington. I had correctly guessed I was way too late to try to successfully build The Mausoliua. In addition all this jungle coming in makes faster workers more important than the other wonder choices.

It seems the main disadvantage of this start is I may be last on my landmass to find out about the other landmass. Can't really be elped with the only coastal city having had it's forest poched. But on this landmass, so far at least I'm well on my way to a time victory.

In 1270 AD A Great Merchant was born; used to light bulb Paper. The resulting map trades revealed that the starting landmass along with some tiny islands off the east coast.

Hum, the Native Americans seem to have taken more than their fair share of land advancing all the way up here from their starting osition on the southern edge of the landmass. Between the Babs and the Native Americans I appear to be cut off from where the barb ities formed as well so no free cities.

In 1340 AD Completed the Angkor Wat in Washington.

While researching Enginnering an unknown civ on the other landmass appears to have built the Notre Dame.

With the only Midevil techs I can currently reserach being Compass & Divine Right, time to start researching Education. Doesn't appear I'll be building ships any time soon and I already have two religions so onwords and upwards.

Discovered Education in 1515 AD.
Attached is what's known about the world so far.
Note that the only large unowned area left on this landmass is the central west portion of it.
Also note the the barb towns in the southeast

[joncnunn]

Reanance Era: 1515 AD to 1750 AD

Islam had still not been founded yet when I finished Liberalism in 1550 AD and so I chose Divine Right as my free tech for a free 3rd religion; founding Islam in Boston.

Great Enginner: Saved up and evenually used to build Taj Mahal

Upon discovery of Economics switched to Free Market.

Great Merchant (from Economics) : Conducted a trade mission to the Native American capital.

Great Artist: Made a painting in my coastal city.

In 1615 Got notification that a distant civ had circumnavigated the world. Did some map trades to get a map of the other landmass.

Discovered Constitution during the Golden Age and immedately switched to Representation.

In 1645 Contact made with the English. They appear to be hopelessly behind.

In 1680 Contact made with the Romans. They have a higher score than anyone on my own landmass.

Used Great Phophet to build the Church of the Navity in Atlanta.

With the discovery of Military Tradition, I declare the Babylonians to be my pact brothers.
(Defensive Pact signed) It's basically only a matter of time before whoever it is that has been spy attacking me DOW me and with stacks of Arabs & Native Americans on my borders and no Babs to be seen it's bound to be one of those two.

The decision to bypass Gunpowder in favor of Replaceable Parts paid off; half way thru the backwards English called me up and asked to sell it. So I'll be able to follow RP up immediately with Rifling.

In 1745 meet Catherine; her score is ahead of Julius and both are ahead of me; looks like the score completion will come from this landmass.

In 1750, my workers discover another resource: An Iron near New York; since I already have two, the main advantage for now appears to be production since New York is likely to be the best candidate for Wall Street.

Since the Budist monstary just completed, sell Divine Right + Chemistry to Catherine for
Scientific Method to enter the Industrious era. A really good deal considering I had bought
Chemistry from someone else.

Zoomed back to my empire. See the bottom right for the global view.

[Iamjohn]

Well it's certainly been a while since there's been life here! I've been off 'Poly for quite a while now, as you might guess, but if people want the AU resurrected, I think I could probably oblige!

I'd be interested at least.

[T-hawk]

Hi Jon,

I'm the designer for this one over at RBCiv, and the writer of the report linked by Iamjohn. Glad you're enjoying it. I'd like to note that the map was completely unedited and unspoiled, although I did playtest through a number of starts before finding one I liked.

Temple of Artemis just looked to darn expensive to go after with this few hammers (especally because I didn't yet have Bronze Working), so even though the designer seemed in the score to really want people to get this I decided to defer it indefinitely.

I didn't have any particular want. It was up for grabs as a scoring option. ToA if non-coastal is typically the weakest ancient wonder for the hammer investment. So the player can decide whether to chase this scoring bonus or to ignore it and prioritize land expansion instead. This rule was an adaptation of the same rule in the Civ 3 version of the game (designed by Sirian), where the Oracle as the weakest ancient wonder (it just gave +1 happy to temples and expired quickly) counted for extra scoring.


Nice call on Serfdom and Hagia Sophia, I used both too. On a huge map with jungle, Hagia was well worthwhile, creating more worker labor than 550 hammers worth of workers. And Great Engineer points are always welcome. And Serfdom complements Hagia nicely. In particular, neither one of them alone accelerates roads (still 2 worker turns on normal speed), but both together *double* road building (2 turns to 1.)


Defensive Pacts were intended to be off the table for this game, the intent being to prevent the player from controlling the landscape of AI-AI wars. Don't know if it's making any difference for you, and of course you don't have to play bound by any particular rules. But that's the original vision.


Here's hoping you bring this one to completion, I'd like to see it! 2050 AD is still a long way away though

[joncnunn]

Well, actually I was intending to discourage Sitting Bull from attacking me and secondarily insure the Babs will support me if either the Arabs or Sitting Bull DOW me more than anything else. I'm seeing no indication that either of the other AIs intend to attack the Babs nor do I see any indication the Babs intend to attack anyone.

But I am seeing strong indications that the Arabs do intend to attack me.

So I think we're ok: I don't seem to have changed AI - AI relations.

Yeah, I did notice that the resource locations seemed to be natural; I have a comment on where I saw the oil, but it's properly belongs to the post about the Industrial era.

[joncnunn]

Being land-locked sure was interesting. I've still not met all the civs on the other landmass dispite knowing exactly where they are from map trades. I don't recall ever not meeting everyone else before reaching the Industrial Era in any game in the civ franchise before (counting SMAC).

That land locked part though was probably a major reason for my one month vacation from the game. It had been getting really dull. Became more interesting again a few hours after I resumed and first heard rumors of the civs on the other landmass, followed later by limited contact and then maps. And now more contacts.

Clearly the primary time victory competition is from the other land mass. The Great Generals being born over there along with maps clearly showing some town names belonging to the "wrong" civs show that there has been heavy fighting over there in spite of everyone over there having the same religion.

Also, I think you found a map in which I'm actually uninterested in building Sushi's at all (at least until someone probably the Arabs DOW me and I retaliate and conquer them).

[joncnunn]

Industrious Era 1750 to 1852

The closest Oil resource is revealed to be one tile south of the city radius (and current culture limit) of St Louis.

Noticed in 1755 that Physics has been researched by someone I've not made contact with. Logs indicate it was likely the Germans in 1710 AD. So time to reserach Communism to try to be first in the world to that instead.

1770 AD Sell Democracy + Replacable Parts to Julius for Biology

1780 AD Beat the World to Communism, getting a Free Great Spy. Looks like my capital is scheduled to get a new great person in 5 turns with an aprox 18% chance of producing a Great Artist so I'm holding onto the Spy for now. Also Statue of Liberty is schuduled to be completed 6 turns from now as well so no civics changes at this time.

1795 AD Make Contact with the Germans. They indeed have Physics. They don't seem willing to trade at this time other than opening borders.

1802 AD Discover Steam Power. Decide to reserach Industralism next; I'm not aware of any civ having it and Factories would go nice with being Organized. Also add a lot of Levees to my queues.

A Great Arist is also born. Triguring GA and switching civics to Universal Suff + Free Speech
+ Emancipation + State Property.

Sell Communism + Rifling to Catherine for Physics + 160 gold (all she had)

1804 AD Complete the Statue of Liberty in Washington. This should yield a nice small production & gold boost.

Between 1804 & 1806: Lose my only Caravel to a Privatter attack off the coast of London.
There was a second Privateer in the same tile so wasn't a suprise. The main thing it means is I'm going to have to build another ship in my only coastal city to go meet the civ or two I
haven't met yet.

Between 1812 & 1814 A Privatter decides to attack my newly built Frigate that was in route. I win, but have to send it back to port for repairs.

1814 AD : Another Gold source is discovered, this one NW of Chicago.

1816 AD : Discover Assembly Line. Start researching Fascism for the Free Great General

1822 AD : Discover Fascism; getting the General. Choose Medicine next to deal with the unhealthiness.

Sell Biology to the Arabs for Steel + some cash.

1824 AD : Great Phophet Born. Will use next turn to build Islam's building.

1826 AD : Bismark completes the Krelim; I was busy building other stuff in my capital.

1832 AD : Great Phophet Born. Save him for the next Golden Age

1834 AD : Discover Medicine. Start reseraching Electricity which no one else has in leiu of Railroad which 3 people already have and a 4th is reseraching.
Also complete Iron Works in Washington. First thing to build there with it: A hospital.
In addition complete Oxford in Chicago

1836 AD : Sell Medicine to Catherine for the Railroad and 30 gold (all she had)

1838 AD : Discover Iron in a hill a couple tiles west of Chicago. Nice but would have better
better if Coal had been there instead.
Sell Fascism to Catherine for Military Science + 150 gold (all she had)

1844 AD : Discover Electricity. Start researching Refridgeration

1852 AD : Discover Refridgeration, entering the Modern Era

Note: The reason that Atlanta is shrinking is the rice farm was just removed by someone. Who could it be? Could it be .... Saladan?

[joncnunn]

The Modern Era: 1852 AD to 1923 AD

Decide to reserach Industralization for Tanks. The hope is that one of the many civs that has Combustion will be willing to sell it by then.

I also am embraging on a major mall building spree.

Complete Broadway in 1854 AD

Catherine completes the Pentagon in the 1850s

Complete Wall Street in 1860 AD in New York

Finally meet the Zulus in 1862; seem to be last in the world

Discover Industralization in 1864; decide to reserach Combustion myself with at least two of the four civs with it apprently never willing to trade it.

Around this time complete the National Park in Los Angeles.

1866 AD: Buy the rest of Combustion from Catherine for the rest of Industralization that she was close to.

Since I had built a fort on the Oil; I now have access it. Starting to build Railroad and Tanks

Start to research Plastics

1868 AD: Great Phophet born; since I already have one saved, use this one to join Wall Street in New York.

1872 AD: Shaka finally opens the borders

1876 AD: Complete Red Cross in Seatle. Well, if I build any more ships they'll have Medic.

Sitting Bull changes his state religion from Hamari's to Saladan's!

1878 AD: Complete Plastics. Going to build Hydro Plant in Washington as a prebuild to
Three Gorges Dam. Start the Radio

1882 AD: Achieve getting all three of my relgions in all my cities. New York took the longest due to 2 foreign relgions present. Looks like the only religion with no representation in my empire is Hinduism, which the Zulus founded.

1884 AD: Sell Refridgeation + the rest of Plastics to Catherine for Flight and 55 gold.
Upgrade the airships to Fighters.

1888 AD: Discover the Radio. Start researching Ecology

1890 AD: Frigate returns to Seattle from it's decades long round trip to the Zulus; and promptly upgraded to Destroyer.

1896 AD : Complete Ecology and start resarching Computers

(BT) War breaks out on the other landmass:
Three civs all DOW the English

1898 AD : Complete Three Gorges in Washington. Also complete the Hermitage in Atlanta.

(BT 1898 & 1900) : Babs found Creative Construction

(BT 1901 & 1902) : England loses two cities.

1902 AD: Another duplicate Great Phophet born; joins Wall Street in New York

1903 AD: Discover Computers. Start researching Super Conductors.

1905 AD: Complete the Effel Tower in Washington.

1906 AD: Julius complete Rock N Roll

1907 AD: Complete Super Conductors. Start Robotics

1908 AD: Julius complete Christo Redemer

(IT before 1912) : Catherine makes peace with England. England though looks doomed with the other civs still taking their cities.

1912 AD: Complete Robotics. Start Fiber Optics. Massively upgrade Infs to Mech Infs along the Arab & Native Americian Borders

1913 AD: Complete the Internet in Washington. This instantly grants me Fission, Artillery, and Rocketry.

(BT 1913 & 1914) Catherine founds Mining Inc. Elizabeth loses two more cities; appears
to only have her Capital left.

(BT 1914 & 1915) Sitting Bull completes Holywood.

1915 AD: Granted Satelights from the Internet

(BT 1916 & 1917) Shaka makes peace with Elizabeth. That leaves England still at war with Germany

1917 AD: Granted Mass Media from the Internet

1918 AD: Discover Fiber Optics. Start Fusion.
First Global Warming Event also strikes me that turn.

(BT 1918 & 1919) : Germany takes London, wiping out the English

1921 AD: A Great Enginner is born. With both GE corporations already founded by AIs, decide to
hold on to him for a Golden Age.

1923 AD: Finish Fusion, getting a Free Great Enginner. Start Composites. This also begins the Future Era

(No need for a screen shot; nothing in my neck of the woods changed except cities are bigger and their builds)