AU 202 DAR Thread 2 - 1520BC ~ Renaissance

[ZargonX]

Post your DARs for this section of the game here. Obviously, the time scale may be different for everyone, so just go with what feels good

[Krill]

Krill the pacifist, or why Great People are better than the Collosus and Great Lighthouse

Basic turn log (by no means everything that happened, just the interesting things that I remembered to note while playing)

860BC; complete meditiation and Oracle, get philo as the free tech.
580BC complete monarchy and swap to hed rule, caste system and pacifism.
510BC convert to confucianism (in cap and 2nd city, adn 2nd city was making a scientist)
370BC: First GS born, used on Academy in Nidaros.
335BC: Nidaros is making more than 50 beakers per turn due to academy and lib.
90BC: GP born, used for Kong Mao110AD: Complete CS, convert to Bureaucracy
170AD: GS Born
230AD finish research into Lit, start GL in capital.
350AD finish Music, get the Great Artist (denial purposes, held for Golden Age)
440AD complete GL
500AD: Complete GS (somewhere)
530AD: Pyramids built by Greece)
590AD: Nat Epic in Nidaros. I know it ain;t ideal, but that is where teh GL is, and I don;t have production to get it anywhere else.
680AD: Collosus built by unknown AI civ
710AD: After a string of Scientists, I get my first unwanted Great Prophet, due to the Kong Mao polluting the GP pool in my second city. I'm not that bothered, due to the fact that I can always do with a little extra gold to pay for city maintence. Or I could invest in a second shrine, but I don;t want the passive religion spreading effect in play. It gets added to my second city for a few more shields, because my second city is just running scients and working food tiles. This is the last GP this city will emphasize, because my capital is churning out the GP points now, and this city is going to have difficulty making even one, though it manages to make a few more throughout the course of the game.
740AD: Alex wants Metal casting. I say no. I ain't afraid of any stinking Prince level AI.
770AD; religion spreads to Knossos. This is the third passive spread to a greek city, but it shows me that the Greek city is on the other pole of the planet compared to the first two that it spread to. Toroidal map, I think No, just the dumb AI...
860AD: Complete HG in cap and finish education.

---

The start of this DAR saw me complete the Oracle and gain philo, which set me up for the rest of the game. I put off switching civics because I needed to change into hed rule, and it wasn't worth the anarchy as monarchy was the next tech to be researched. In the intervening time however I just kept on building warriors for mass happiness.

I then decided on getting Bureaucracy simply because it was the only way to get a city capable of producing hammers without sacrifcing GP, then headed straight to the Great Library for the extra Scientist points. Unfortunately this meant that I had to build the GL in my capital, and also I had to build Nat. Epic there. I always prefer to build these two buildings in a secondary city, but I was constrained by just having nowhere else capable of building them and then also sustaining a lot of scientists. It wasn't too bad, because I was running a SE and it was only going to become even more SE orientated as the game continued. Nidaros was food heavy, and was more than capable of keeping alot of scientists gainfully employed for along time.

After Nat. Epic completes I build a few units and a forge, and then get HG for the Engineer points, and health, and this is the reason for all of the unhappiness in the screen below.

[Vaugula]

Price@epic

1520BC –1514 AD

My stated game strategy at the start of the game was to play a violent game but I haven’t done that very well so far. I could make excuses about no one being close and lack of strategic resources but to follow through on this strategy I really need to look for some targets and find those resources. My revised plan then is to build some boats and go exploring while building. Once a target is found then we will switch to war.

Research goes Writing -> Sailing -> Iron Working. The oracle completes and we take Code of Laws (in hindsight Metal Casting would have been better) and found the one true faith of Confucianism in Uppsala.

Found Haitabu near the southern pigs.

We build some boats to go scouting.

Alex finds me but I still don’t know where he is. He is scouting with a trireme so we must be able to reach him with galleys. Depending on how far away he is and if we find any copper we might hit him with axes.

Iron working completes and much to our relief we find a source of iron on the island.

Research now goes Animal Husbandry -> Alphabet -> Math -> Polytheism -> Literature. We found Birka in the north of the island.


Confucianism spreads half way around the world to Athens!

Obviously that isn’t half way around the world but it is outside what I have explored. Alex converts the next turn.

After Alphabet is discovered we find that Alex doesn’t want to trade anything to us which is a bit frustrating because he has Polytheism and Monotheism which would both be helpful, the first because it is a prerequisite of Literature and the other because it unlocks Organised Religion.

Our first overseas expansion, Bjørgvin, is founded on an island to the south. This site claims copper and spices. Finally find Alex’s borders so we sign open borders with him to be able to scout out his territory. There is a large island that could take 4 cities to the north east of the Viking home island between us and them so my plan is to settle this island peacefully and then launch an attack on Alex. I figure we will be able to tech all the way to berserkers in that time so the timing will work out well.

I build the Kong Miao. Alex founds Christianity, I figure he will convert and become my enemy. After Literature completes I start the Great Library in my capital.

Research now goes Calendar -> Monotheism -> Currency -> Metal Casting -> Construction -> Machinery -> Civil Service. Second overseas expansion, Jelling, is founded on the island between me and Alex.

With 3 gems and some flatlands this city will be a strong commerce city.

Finish the Great Library. As soon as Monotheism is finished, we revolt to OR. We found a second city on the island, Roskilde.

This city turns out to be really badly placed and won’t do anything useful (other than take up space) until Biology which is a looong way off yet. We use a great scientist to found an academy in Niadros.

There was a barbarian city on the island I am current colonising. I raze it with a stack of axes. We found Tonsberg

and Sigtuna

on the island. With Civil Service in hand we can now build berserkers and so we begin assembling an invasion force.

Research path now goes Music (for the free GA, but I missed it) -> Drama. I use a great prophet to lightbulb Theology. With my invasion force assembled I revolt to Theocracy and Bureaucracy. Obviously it would have been helpful to be in those civics while assembling the force, I thought it would delay my declaration too much so I held off until I had finished. I meet Roosevelt who is running around with a Caravel. This is a bit of a wake up call as I had my heart set on the circumnavigation bonus to aid in our naval exploits.

Research path now goes Compass -> Optics. Now it is time for war with Alex. Using berserkers for amphibious assaults is actually faster than marching from city to city as my galleys move at 3 whereas the troops will be restricted to moving 1 while in Alex’s culture. I plan to hit Athens first because that will hopefully but a big dent in the Greek economy and make it hard for him to strike back.

The Greek capital is sacked!

Even against 60% cultural defences the attack prevailed with only the loss of 2 cats. Without longbows Alex doesn’t stand a chance against my berserkers.

Disaster strikes (or rather, lack of planning comes to fruition) and I lose Tonsberg to the Greeks. It was too lightly defended given that it could be reached easily. I guess I figured the Greeks would want their capital back, obviously not. I divert 2 berserkers back to deal with the Tonsberg situation.

Sparta is next to fall.

I recapture Tonsberg with no further losses. Toku finds me, really driving home the need to get those Caravels out. Once Optics has finished I whip a caravel (as I said, I am really keen) and upgrade a trireme and send them in opposite directions. Hopefully my bonus Navigation 1 promotion will give me the edge I need to catch up in the circumnavigation race. I not expecting to get it and I probably don’t deserve to either.

Research now goes Monarchy -> Feudalism. Roosevelt comes and asks for Drama! Even though he is the score leader and has about a number of techs lead on me. I see that he and Alex hate each other so I let him to help foster better relations.

I revolt to HR once Monarchy comes in. The Christian holy city of Argos is stormed by Viking forces.

Argos also had 3 galleys and 3 caravels in it so I managed to scuttle most of the Greek fleet.

A great general is born which I am planning to send to front to get my most experienced unit up to level 6 to unlock West Point. I meet Korea, Spain and England.

Rampaging Vikings raid Knossos.

Roosevelt comes to me with a deer for pigs deal which I accept. Against all odds I snag the circumnavigation bonus.

Corinth falls.

This gives the Vikings dominion over the Greek home isle. My economy is lagging pretty badly now so I think some peace might be on the cards to allow me to rebuild my economy and catch up on tech. Alex makes peace for Archery and HBR which I hadn’t bothered to research before now.

Wang Kwong offers cows for sugar which I take. I add my warlord to my most promoted berserker promoting him all the way to level 6.

Research goes Paper -> Education. My plan is now to have a crack at winning the Liberalism race. Like the circumnavigation race I don’t hold out much hope that I will but I figured Liberalism will give me something to trade with the other civs in any case.

Elizabeth propose wheat for sugar and I accept.

With the completion of Education we enter the Renaissance period.

State of the Empire.

[ZargonX]

Looks like Detroit is asking for trouble!

[Vaugula]

Originally posted by ZargonX
Looks like Detroit is asking for trouble!

Hahaha, yeah I don't think that was a good place for Roosevelt to settle.

[joncnunn]

Normal Speed Noble w Blake's AI Mod
The Midevil era

1160 BC - 1410 AD
I've been running Org Religion [Judism] + rest defaults since early game.

1120 BC Granted the remainer of I.W. from goody hut. Start some tech I can't read my note about
1000 BC Start Math. Discover Alexander. Open the borders.
850 BC Found Binto [SE]
790 BC Start Med
675 BC Start some other tech I can't make out
575 BC Complete Great Lighthouse
425 BC Start Alpha
380 BC Found Boorsrin[sp? more trouble with my writing, second ring SE; rice]
250 BC Start Mon
225 BC Construct Temple of Solomon.
Adopt H.R. & Slavery
1 AD Start Drama as part of the free Great Arist campaign
125 AD Start Music
150 AD construct Pathenon
300 AD Start Metal Casting
The Free Great Artist builds a Great Work in Haitu.
Sometime around here, Alexander declares war with me for some strange reason dispite being brothers in faith
450 AD Start Compass for Harbors
475 AD Lightbulb Currency with Great Merchant due to the ongoing naval war
500 AD Found Jellins [second ring S; food resources]
560 AD Strart Code of Law
Sometime around here, the futile not going anywhere war ends in Status Quo Ante Bellum
(Alexander got marginally more hurt in the naval battles)
Reopen the borders, but for some reason the game won't allow commerence between our empires
620 AD Start Philosphy mostly because the AI hadn't researched it. One AI does however reach it before I finish.
760 AD Start Civil Service
Sometime around here, Get tired of the open borders without commerence and close the borders in hopes reopening will restore the routes.
Alexander won't reopen though.
920 AD Construct Great Library. Start Fedualism.
Switch Civics to Bur + Serfdom
1030 AD Start Construction
1040 AD Found Roskillae [spice island]. Use Great Artist born a few turns before to instantl expand it's borders
1070 AD Start Machinery. Build National Epica in Niraros
1110 AD Build Church of Nativity
1120 AD Start Optics for Caravels
1160 AD Start Guilds
Shortly thereafter upgrade two of the Tembries [the ones w Nav 2] left over from the Greek War to Caravels.
1200 AD Discover Tok; he's behind in techs and as Xenophobic as ever. [His borders are closed with everybody]
Discover Isabella by virtue of Isabella having the Budist Shrine and the Jap city I visited practicing Budism.
She won't open borders either.
1230 AD Start D.R. Use Great Phophet born a few turns earlier to hurry this along, which is main reason for reseraching now
1240 AD Found Tonsoers, taking in all the Gems on the southern portion of that island.
1250 AD Found Islam in the Spice Island. Start Banking
1270 AD Meet Wong Wang. Open Borders
1280 AD Meet Roosevlet Open Borders. Buy H.R. from him for Drama + 5 gold.
1290 AD Start Paper as part of beeline to Liberalism
1300 AD Complete Circumnavigation of the Globe. This is a personal record for me for fewest turns between Optics & Circumnavigation.

I declare war on Alexander.
(Time for revenge and 6 Berserkers on 3 Galleys with Tembries for protection are just the ticket.
Especally since I have line of sight into most of his territory since he's following my state religion.

Sack underdefended Corith the same turn. (The two Greek cities west are too heavilly defended)
This was especally good first target because the AI had over half of it's navy sitting in port in Corith.

1310 AD Start Education
Sack even more underdefended Athens a bit east.
A Great General is born; pull obsolete warriors off of M.P duty and create a Warlord.
They'll both get free upgrades to Berskers next turn, one from the warlord and the other cursory of the cash
taken from Greece. They'll then go back to being MPs since all my Galleys are busy.

1320 AD Sack crimenally underdefended Sparta.

1330 AD Sack underdefended Argo, formerlly the eastern most Greek city.

1350 AD Discover Liz. Open Borders

1370 AD Sack underdefended Myceane on the north coast.

1390 AD Sack Kromas, on the west, and their Iron Site. It used to be adequately defended before I got lots of City Raider II promotions

1410 AD Enter Renance Era

The Greeks still haven't realized that resistance is futile and refuse to capitulate.
(Perhaps their -15 Whinning about me raizing their cites to the ground has something to do with it.)
That size 3 Greek City was founded the turn after I sacked Athens. The more developed cities were juicer targets,
but it's now next on the list. I'm really hoping they'll see the light before I have to competely wipe them out.

The main thing about this is the AI, even with Blake's improvements doesn't really understand is that every coastal city is a border city.

My post war plan calls for major territorial expansion in the area, starting with the other city sites on Gem island.

[Blake]

Emperor

Part 1:

After the oracle there is a bit of a lull in the action. Researching Sailing then Iron Working and building a trading post in both cities.

My second city has stronger production and it is tasked with building the Oracle, while my capital is on Galley and Settler duty. Both cities are whipped, basically every 10 turns.



I WAS going to found a city on the PIGS, this would have been an exceptional move since it's rarely a good idea to "waste" a 5 food tile in such a way, but in this case a city in any other place would tend to block off one of the fish or clams, and wasting 6f-1c/5f 3c tiles is an even greater crime than wasting 5f-1h tiles. Also the hill being the only good defensive site to protect against Greek Aggression, AND, it being the only site with food which allows the stone to be worked.

However after all the agonizing of deciding to found a city on pigs, it turns out some heathens have already settled in. Fact is, I'm not going to spend on both an army and a settler for that site, so I start training some swords to claim the barb city, and the settler gets sent south.



He ends up founding here, and I have no reservations in saying that that island was one of the hardest to dotmap I've ever seen. Pretty much every good city site is either abysmal or involves founding ON a tile you should never found on, like pigs or grassland gems. Basically, in dotmapping that island you choose the lesser of two evils...



Uppsala completes the Great Lighthouse in 700BC. I have to say, that site is a very nice little production powerhouse and those who chose to not settle there may have had more trouble bagging the critical wonders. It is an even better site that the capital, at least for the singleminded goal of wonder pumping. The capital has so much potential food that it's better used as a settler whip pump.

I sort of mess up here...


The Iron being hooked up causes the ready to complete warrior to mutate into an incomplete spearman. So guess how I buy those turns needed for the spearman to complete?
Tough "life" a worker has in my empire .



Yet another wonder, this one of the saintly variety, courtesy of the Oracle.

Anyway after Metal Casting I pick up Monotheism and switch to Organized Religion since that civic really does help a lot. The main use in this case is missionaries to pop borders but the +25% to buildings certainly doesn't hurt. After Org.Rel -> Mathematics.



The Barbarian city is welcomed into the fold, with open arms (and gaping wounds, for those who try to resist). One of the quirks of scenario play is that the barbarians play at the level the map was created, meaning instead of archers the city was still garrisoned with warriors.



In 275AD the holy trinity of archi economy is complete. Financial + great lighthouse + colossus. Nothing can bring in more commerce than that. Note that I DID hook up copper in advance of starting the colossus, on the minimap the south-west city is the copper city.
Anyway what the trinity means is that it's both possible and easy to expand like a wretched disease, paying absolutely no heed to upkeeps. When a size 3 city with no infrastructure is bringing in 17 commerce it's not hard to keep the economy afloat. With the full trinity it's nearly impossible to drop below 50% research, and even without the full trinity you should be able to keep above 30% with infinite city sprawl.
The most important is without question the Great Lighthouse, and the Organized trait is a fine substitute for the Financial trait (and may be superior). One should always seriously question not getting those wonders on an archi map - and I don't mean just "pursuing" but really getting them at any cost, like in my case I arranged to have a strong production 2nd city devoted fully to the GL and basically beelined the required techs.

(Part 2 will be up who knows when... don't hold your breath)

[couerdelion]

Re: Emperor

Originally posted by Blake
Part 1:


The Iron being hooked up causes the ready to complete warrior to mutate into an incomplete spearman. So guess how I buy those turns needed for the spearman to complete?
Tough "life" a worker has in my empire .

Nope. This is not a trick of which I am aware. I'm all ears.

[Blake]

Barbs will tend to attack workers before cities, they'll especially attack a worker at 100% odds over a city at 98% odds. So I moved the worker to above the barb, forcing the barb to kill the worker and thus move north (1 turn wasted), barb then returns south (2 turns wasted) and at that point the spearman is 1 turn from complete, he completes at the end of the turn and the barb warrior attacks, running into the fresh spears.

It's an absolutely horrible use for a worker, but it does beat losing a city.
You can use missionaries too.