AU201 - DAR1: The Opening (until ~1000BC)

[Blake]

Since ZargonX has not made a DAR thread I've decided to go ahead and do it.

In the past the first DAR has been until 1520BC, or something. However the time span's have always been unnatural. I feel that it is best to go until 1000BC, this is because 1000BC is typically the target date for completing the Oracle and is thus when the slingshots succeed or fail. I've always thought that 1520BC is a bit premature - it's just before the success of the opening can really be measured.

So I suggest going until approximately 1000BC - if it seems more natural to end the DAR a turn or two earlier or later then that is fine. The objective should be a meaningful comparison of openings.

[Blake]

Monarch Difficulty.

The first thing I want to do is scout around a little, I decide to found London where it gets the Fish and Wheat. And then I almost immediately regret this decision.



It's not that it's a bad city site - it's not. But the yellow circle is obviously where I'm going to place my next city, and it's a MUCH better site. THAT is where London should be, and where London is should be where my second city goes.

The reason is mainly health. This London site has zero bonus health. Zip, nada, zilch. It has a puny healthy cap of 2. Fortunately I'll connect the fish quickly enough to get a healthy cap of 3, and later the wheat will bring that to 5. So it's not terrible. But it would be somewhat better to have the capital at yellow circle.

Anyway, what's better than free happy? More free happy! I get more happy from having Monuments and yet more free happy from religion, so since I can build workboats and work fish to occupy London's time I decide to pursue Buddhism.

I am in luck.


Why Meditation? It tends to be my preference most the time, since the Meditation bias is purely mythical, given that both religions are equally dice rolls, meditation is also better because (on average) you know if you've failed earlier. I'm not planning to get Monotheism or Literature either, at least not super early.

Since I still have oodles of happy I don't switch to Buddhism yet.

After Buddhism the next tech is obvious - Bronze Working. Despite or in spite of the name "All smiles" there's only one way to leverage production out of this food basket, and in fact slavery is precisely why I want as much happiness as possible, having surplus happy means you can keep your bases small (where slavery is most effective) and just keep stacking the whipping anger.


It turns out there's a consolation prize for founding London where I did - Copper! I was training a settler but I decide I'd rather have a worker ASAP because there are 2 excellent tiles to hook up. So I grow to size 4 and then whip the worker out.

This is followed by whipping a settler out (at size 4, for 2 pop).



As you can see the crabs already have a workboat, that is what I built while growing for whipage. I also wish to note that another HUGE benefit of a super fast religion is quickly popping the capitals borders, in this case bringing 2 seafood into radius to bootstrap the development of 2 new cities.

The new city of course is founded on my earlier yellow circle and the first build is a Monument, to pop borders as quickly as possible and to get an extra for the rampant whipping to follow.

My tech path so far (since BW) has been Agriculture (for the corn) and The Wheel (to hook stuff up), this is followed by Priesthood, and then finally Pottery, for reasons most obvious. Without a granary the population has trouble growing faster than the whip anger fades while I want to actually stack whip anger.
The reason for Priesthood is to get a temple for another in my capital and also the ability to run a priest, I hope to build a shrine eventually... so basically I'll run that priest until I get a prophet.

Then my neighbor introduces himself:


By slapping down a city, right off my dotmap. That scum. Cyrus losing creative has been the best thing that has ever happened to him, now instead of being annoying and hard to kill, he is less annoying and easier to kill .

"Turn those smiles upside down"

As far as I see it, there's only one possible strategy here - Axerush that scum off my land. There's no way I'm getting crammed into this little peninsula, so I get a barracks in my capital and start whipping out axes, making sure to double whip them (that involved not working the copper for a turn to get less than 5 hammers onto an axe).

My first two Axes turn up, before I even have city garrisons.



Unfortunately Cyrus already has a City Garrison 1 Archer in the city... if it was just a warrior I'd have gone in for the kill ... but I really want a 3rd or 4th axeman to eliminate the chance of a bad roll. I decide to go on a worker hunt.

The worker is found, as expected, building a road to the 2nd city.



I let him finish his road and then go in for the kill.

Alas in the interturn Cyrus completes a 2nd archer AND upgrades the warrior to an axeman! Arrrgh!



3 Axes can't possibly take that, so I decide to send the axes around to see if I can pick off some wandering persian units. Fearing Immortals, I also research Hunting so I can get a few spears.


I am in "luck" (note: I know the AI only defend a city of that size with 2 units, so the 3rd unit would come out as soon as I moved away from the city - no luck came into it) and the Axeman steps outside to brawl. One brawl later and my Axeman is cover promoted.

And then the persian city is mine.



I took no losses taking this city because all the rolls went my way. I was planning to raze the city for the sake of my dot map, but I decide to keep it instead, especially since it's size 2 so I can immediate whip in a monument.

I decide to end my DAR at 900BC with the founding of Nottingham:



Nottingham was required to make use of the fish resource. Since it's close to the capital upkeep will be minimal. While it is close to the Persian city neither city is really crowded - both have ample tiles to work. In the short run Nottingham will make an excellent little whip pump, with it's 6f fish and 3f lake, later it'll get to about size 10.

So far I have completely and utterly neglected the Protective trait, having neither Archery nor Masonry. It is fortunate then, that this AU Course is on the Charismatic trait. The fact of the matter is, protective is only useful when the enemy is making some attempt at an offensive. Another thing is that it is better to be the attacker, by attacking you earn 2-4x as much exp per fight, in fact a 50% odds battle tends to give 4 exp, so a charismatic unit with no exp can immediately get promoted twice just by winning a single 50% battle. In many ways the high exp rewards for winning "medium odds" battles is a big incentive to engage in those battles despite the higher chance of losing the unit. I nearly always attack rather than defend, relying on having enough units on hand to make up for the losses.
It is for this reason that Protective is a very useless trait to me and it is not so useful combined with Charismatic. This would not be true of Charismatic + Aggressive, since Agg is a trait which very much favors attacking, so you would have these super-promoted melee units running around. Come gunpowder Protective starts to shine because then the free promotions are on an attacking unit, your attackers can effectively be their own city garrisons for holding captured cities. However I tend to think that pre-Gunpowder, Protective is a very useless trait unless you lack metal.

[ZargonX]

Thanks for setting this up, Blake; been a busy weekend!

[Blake]

Btw, I just want to say something. Don't be intimidated by my DAR! Traditionally most people post MUCH shorter DAR's, often with just a single screenshot. I'm just a bit too much of a Realms Beyond'er these days . Post as little or as much as you wish.

[Diadem]

I'm not intimidated. Impressed, definitely, but not intimidated.

I hope to post a DAR later tonight - my first one ever. It probably won't be as impressive as Blake's but I will try to add at least a few screenies.

I've only had a chance to play a few turns yet, so I haven't read most of Blake's post yet, I don't want to spoil my own future fun

I can tell that I had the same problem as Blake with placing my capital. I don't like the starting position. Founding there kills the fish to the north-east (unless there's more land there, who knows?), but moving one north takes a turn, kills a forest, and removes freshwater. Two to the south-west is another option. Two fish though, freshwater and 4 (or more) forests.

A very hard choice at the very first turn of this course.

Will be an interesting game

[Diadem]

This will be my first DAR. I hope everybody will enjoy reading it... A warning in advance: I'm long-winded

Difficulty: Monarch
Game Speed: Normal

The scenario is named 'All Smiles'. I'm charismatic, and so are all my opponents. I've always like the charismatic trait. It's one of the best there is, in my opinion. Both the happiness and the experience bonus are very powerful. Together they make for a very versatile trait. I can wage war as well as peace.

All my opponents are charismatic as well. A quick look at the wikipedia tells us that this means that none start with mysticism, except Brennus. But Brennus isn't much of a religious freak, so chances for an early religion never looked better.

With this in mind I started on mysticism. After that I will research polytheism. It's always a gamble whether to research polytheism or meditation. The former is overall more useful though, so choose that one. Besides in this case I expect to make it to a religion long before the AI does, so no problems.



The next choice is where to found my capital. A hard one! I seem to be on an peninsula. My starting postition is a decent one, but it pretty much fills the peninsula, leaving not much room for other cities to use those sea food. The north-east one will even be excluded from use permanently. Founding one tile to the north gets me that food, but it destroys a forest and gives me no health. So I decide to found two tiles to the south-west and reserve the other side for my second city. Two sea food and 3 forests, two of them plains, is a good basis for a capital. Plenty of food and decent production because of the forests.

Also notice from the screenie that the goodie hut gave me a scout. Good. London starts working on a workboat of course. I choose working the plains forest over the grassland one, I want my workboat out ASAP. After this workboat I will start another one immidiately. By the time that one is finished I will have a decent size city and I will be close to bronze working.



So Brennus went for an early religion after all! Lucky I choose the polytheism! Because I wouldn't even have been close to Buddhism yet if I had gone for it.



Hinduism is mine though. I don't convert yet, I don't want the anarchy and don't need the happiness, yet.

Meanwhile London has nearly completed its second workboat. A worker will be next, while I research Bronze Working. It will actually be finished before research is done, but that is okay. I will build a warrior (my first one is at the other side of the world by now), to allow my city to grow to size 4, which only takes a few turns with 2 sea food. Then it's poprush time. A settler for 2 population points.



In 2360 BC, York is founded. As you can see Bronze Working has turned up copper at my original starting position. Good thing I didn't found there. York will be a very good city, I almost regret not founding my capital there after seeing the copper. In the meantime I have researched The Wheel and I am now busy with Agriculture, for the corn. My worker made itself useful by cutting down the forest before York was founded - some free hammers that would have been wasted otherwise. I don't expect to cut many more forests this game. Only 4 left in sight, and those are pretty much my only source of hammers. My worker also build a mine and he's now connecting my cities. After that, the corn, of course.



Yech! Look what crawled up to my doorstep! I already met Cyrus (In fact I've already met Washington as well) before. He seemed to be far enough away to not have to worry about the above yet, but he's more annoying than I anticipated. Obviously that city can not be allowed to exist for much longer. I can not afford to be locked up. Luckily charismatic is a good trait for warfare. Later warfare more than early warfare, but still. A man's got to do what a man's got to do.

As you can see as well, I am researching monotheism. After The Wheel and Agriculture I went for it immidiately (via Masonry, of course). Why? Well, I'm not drowning in Hammers and I don't have marble. Going for the Oracle will be hard. Besides I've already decided to build Stonehenge (Obelisk = happiness!), and I'm not planning on doing a very wonder-heavy game. And of the early wonders The Great Lighthouse and The Colossus look more interesting in this game anyway. With Brennus already having his religion, and no other civs with mysticism as a starting tech, and no religious nutcracks, odds of getting Judaism seemed good as well. I want those hammers from Organized Religion. Another option would have been pottery, but I don't need cottages just yet. Enough water tiles to keep my research flowing.

With Cyrus asking to be killed like this, the monotheism gambit pays off nicely. Forget the Oracle, give me axemen! In fact, as you can see from the screenie, I already switched both my cities towards building them (London was building a 2nd settler, it will have to wait. Nowhere to found a city anymore anyway).



Just a couple of turns later. 2 axemen got whipped for 1 pop each, with enough overflow to build a second axemen in both cities very quickly. Cyrus is doomed.

Oh, York got Judaism on the previous turn as well. I will switch to organized religion (and hinduism as state religion) on the next turn. I want my 4th axemen done before those 2 turns of anarchy though. Meanwhile London can build stonehenge - still no need for that 2nd settler.

Waiting two turns with switching has another benefit. With 5 culture a turn York's borders will pop soon. As you can see I already have a fishing boat ready for the fish that will come in range. That fish to the south is already already workboated by the way. When I founded York I started with two workboats while the city was growing to a decent enough size for poprushing. With copper that went pretty fast.

That 4th workboat was meant to give my 3rd city an nice kickoff - a worked fish from turn 1. Stupid Cyrus ruined that plan though. He will pay!



Oh, hello Brennus. Nice to see you. I didn't know you were on this island as well (assuming I'm on an island. Certainly doesn't look Pangeaic). How does Buddhism suit you? Wait, you don't have Buddhism? But it was founded in 3440 BC! Only a civilization with mysticism could have done it that fast!

Looks like our scenario maker is not delivering what he promised, and there are some non-smiley civs around as well. Oh well, I like the occasional surprise. Isabella will be a nice main course after I've taken out Cyrus as an appetizer. It must be Isabella. It always is.



In BC 1360, war is beginning. (Oh! A zero wing reference! I'm so nerdy! (OMG! I am explaining my own jokes. I'm so nerdy!)). I actually waited a few turns with attacking him, to find a capturable worker. Pasargadae only has 2 warriors. So that's in the bag. Let's see what Susa has.

In the tech deparment I'm working on Iron Working now. If I'm going to bash skulls, I might as well get the techs I need for that. I want to know where the Iron is.



BURN BABY, BURN!!!

York is already building a settler to found a new city, at the hill to the north-west of where Pasargadae will have used to be in a few seconds. My worker capture was succesful, so two workers now for me.

London has completed Stongehenge. Time to start on another settler. York will build a barracks once it is done with the settler. After that units, more units and even more units.

No losses so far. My axemen will heal up and move off to Susa.



Susa was pretty well defended, but not well enough. Lost two axemen on this battle, but I won. I thought for a long time here, but decided in the end that I don't like this spot either. I want my city on the plains hill one tile to the north-east. It's another 100 wasted hammers from a new settler, but I think it's worth it. I don't want to overexpand. London has nearly completed its settler anyway. Hope I can get it there before Cyrus expands again.

I have completed Iron Working, and founding on that plains hill will yield me Iron. I can use it. I'm researching pottery now and will probably do Animal Husbandry after. Mainly to see if Cyrus has horses. If he doesn't then I will just have to build an endless stream of axes to kill him dead. Otherwise things are slightly more complicated. So far I haven't seen immortals yet.

It's 950 BC now. I good moment to stop this DAR. I bargained for peace with Cyrus, to save my injured units from retalliation. Soon I will restart our war again though, with an army of axemen.

A final screenie to show the overall situation now. The dots are where I want future cities. The most western one first, to block Cyrus and give me Iron. Barbarians don't look like they will be much of a problem, they can only come from the south, and can easily be maintained.



One final overview screenie. Taken on the same turn as the previous one. I blacked out the minimap to not reveal too much of the world.

Things are looking excellent. I founded two religions, and completed a very good Stonehenge. Cyrus is severely weakened, he has copper but 99% certain no iron and hopefully no horse. He is down to one city, a strong one, but it should be beatable. Hope I can take it without catapults. The peninsula to the south is basicly all mine, giving me plenty of room to build an empire. Good resources there as well. My three cities are all on excellent spots, with plenty of food and enough production.

[Swiss Pauli]

Monarch

Well, I have quite some fun in the past with a Feudalism sling with Winnie, so that was my pre-start idea here. Founded London for the Fish, as Blake did too I see. Straight to Bronzeworking for me though, for whip fodder will be plentiful and hammers sparse.

Wander around for a bit and meet this queer looking chap in 3720


Well he's now IMP and pre-patch I found such Civs sometimes under-defend their cities; I wonder if it's the same in 2.08? In 3200 BW is learnt and there's copper right at London, so I change my pre-game plan and decide on grabbing Metal Casting with the Oracle. Thereafter, I'll go for a Colossus, or, should there be some Iron for me, try for some crossbow mayhem to to take out Cyrus. Why? Well, I've never tried that before and university is where you go to experiment, isn't it? Or at least it was in Winnie's day...

[Swiss Pauli]

Meet Brennus in 3040. This Spiritual fellow would go on to found Buddhism in 2360, then Judaism in 1520. I'm not bothering with the early religions: I'm Charismatic, after all. Might lightbulb Taoism, depending on which path I take post-Oracle.

On size 4, we start on our first settler and York is duly founded in 2480.

Research path was: BW - Agri - Wheel - Pottery - Mysticism - Meditation - Priesthood. During this time infrastructure (granaries and monuments) and garrisons were built in the cities alongside the obligatory workboats. London began the Oracle in 1600 and was supporting unhappy pop in order ro rush the wonder in due course.

[Swiss Pauli]

In 1080, the time has come to whip the Oracle

In 950, Ironworking is no longer a mystery and there's a source to the south of York. Not a great site by any means, but I'm sure it will pay its way. And here's the lay of land. Cyrus is quite fond of that spot at Corn/Sheep, it seems.


Cyrus has Axemen, which means that I'll get myself onto the warpath by researching Machinery. The Big Man can wait...

[EPW]

Prince/Normal speed

Well, heres my first "DAR" ever

I'm just going to post the highlights, since everyone else covered the details.

I have a question firs though: I have Blake's 2nd to latest AI in customassets, does that apply to this game?

Anyways...

I found my first city on the trees at 9:




After getting Bronze Working I go for priesthood to try for the Oracle.
I chop and 4-pop whip and in 1240BC....



I chose COL as the free tech, and found Confucianism.

Heres my "Empire" at 1000BC:

[clinton]

Diety Level

4000BC: Here is the starting position.





After moving the warrior to the hut getting reveal maps, I've decided to settle my capital on the first red dot, leaving the option for 2nd city on the northmost red dot. I could of placed the capital one to the west to avoid overlap with the second city, but I felt the fresh water was more important than a few ocean squares.

3960BC: London

Settle down, and start on workboat, and go for bronzeworking. Bronzeworking allows me to whip out those settlers quicker, and there's no real need for agriculture yet with all those fish around. Religion was an option, with only one opponent having mystisism, but I think taking on the Diety AI's in the religion department is a dangerous move.





3320BC: Oh no, a bear!





3280BC: After a 40 year fight, the warrior defeats the bear, the bear dying of old age. The warrior is going to choose woodsman I and fortify til healed. In the meantime I've switched to slavery, and about to start researching The Wheel.





This is how much of the world I have explored.





2960BC: Also, I got my warrior in a fight with a lion in the forest on purpose, which it won. It is now 3/4 experience, one more win will promote it to woodsman II, giving it two moves in forests and jungles, and +50% defence. Also, just finished my second workboat in capital, work on a warrior. Also, built my second work boat last turn.

2880BC: Build a warrior, work a settler. The settler will get 10 production per turn, so whip it when it gets to 40 production. This settler is going to try to make a city on the red spot, to stop cyrus from getting it, I can settle on the yellow spot later, as cyrus can only get there using boats.





2800BC: Get into another fight on purpose with the warrior, at experience 3/4. Winning this fight will promote it too Woodsman II. I win this fight next turn, without taking any damage, a pleasant surprise.





2560BC: Looks like I've got that city site just before the persians. I figure they might want to settle south of the lake and get the sheep, but I'm happy getting the fish. York (the new city) starts building on a workboat (the captial is due to expand in 16 turns, this will bring the fish under our cultural influence and will happen before york can expand its culture with a momument).





All is not good though, popping a hut just reveals hostile barbs. Luckily, I can run away since my warrior has woodsman II, and try to pick them off one at a time.





2440BC: Get london working on another settler. Yes, I haven't built a worker yet. However, noticing the large land mass I've been exploring south, I want to build a city in the red area so the persians can not access the yellow area. I don't know how big this is, but it looks like it would fit at least a few cities. The persians could still get there by boats, but because I don't think they've explored there yet (a hut was unpopped) they my not bother trying to drop settlers from boats til much later, giving me oppurtunity to colonize the area myself.





2080BC: Just got my second settler there in time. Building a city there will push the persian settler back along the red line. Waiting til next turn and settling on the blue dot allows their settler to move along the yellow line and might push the settler along the purple line.





1000BC: Things have gone along pretty steadily for the last 1000 years or so. I have built a worker now, but need many more, so York will keep pumping out workers. London is just about to whip a settler, and it will continue building a few more settlers (the extra happiness of london allows it to grow to size 6 and triple whip). I will research writing and then probably iron working to reveal any iron deposits.

This is the current map of my civilization.





My current finances. Note the large city upkeep. This is only going to get larger as I build more cities, however I'll start developing cottages soon in an attempt to provide for this. I figure against a Diety AI, grabbing as much land as possible before the AI does is first priority, I can worry about the economy later. I'm quite prepared to go into deficit (as long as I have the savings) to expand, as long as I have cottages maturing and cities growing.





My mightly military. Not very mighty at all actually. I haven't even hooked up the copper, due to lack of workers (I only just build one around 1400BC), and I only just hooked up the horses a few turns ago.





My tech progression





My score.





And the power graph. A bit concerning. I hope the Persians like me. After I finish expanding though, I'll concentrate more on my military. Its pretty bare bones at the moment to expand at a rapid pace.

[conmcb25]

Good to see all these first timers playing AU!

Welcome, and I hope you enjoy many more courses in the future, if any of you get the urge to do your own AU game, Im sure Zargon_X would appreciate the help

[Diadem]

Wow Clinton, interesting game. Playing on deity level with Blake's AI is brave. Though of course it's not a true deity, the other AIs don't start with their deity units, but with noble units or something like that.

I'm gonna be curious to how your game develops. With no tech development and no military you're gonna be in major trouble against the AI it seems. But who knows ...

[wertyu70]

Noble Level
Before the patch I played Prince, but now I still haven't won, so I moved back to Noble.
Please help me to correct what I did wrong.

4000 BC
Settled in place, got a map from the village
Building Workboat
Research Bronze
Plan is to avoid early wonder, avoid Religious tree
and try a rapid early expansion, maybe with a rush

3600 BC
Meet Cyrus

3480 BC
Bronze discovered on capital site
Research Agriculture
Adopt Slavery
I have already bronze connected, but Axemen vs Immortal is not a good idea
Maybe focus on a peaceful expansion.

3300 BC ??
Completed Workboat, start warrior


3200 BC
Discovered Cyrus border


3160 BC
Agriculture -> Wheel

3040 BC
Warrior -> Worker

2880 BC
Wheel discovered.
Pottery or Animal Husbandry?
Animal Husbandry, I want to reveal Horses.

2760 BC
Worker -> Warrior, then settler
I plan to found second city on plain near fish
to get crab and incense

2520 BC
Animal Husbandry -> Pottery
Ok, it looks like Cyrus haven't horse yet.
I can built my third city near the lake and get horse, sheep and corn.

2480 BC
Meet Washington

2400 BC
Settler -> Barracks.
I plan to build a couple of Axemen I want them to be veteran.

2360 BC
York founded -> Workboat

2240 BC
Pottery -> Writing, then Alphabet

2120 BC
Meet Brennus

1960 BC
London complete barracks -> Axeman as barb killer

1920
Writing -> Alphabet
Rushing Axemen, planning to prepare a new settler

1720
Discover city near me, in my preferred city site.
Ok, I really need to destroy that city, even if I had to fight Immortal.
But probably Cyrus haven't connected horses yet, so I can try to rush him,
even if I'm a bit late.
So I Rushed 2 other Axemen, and park all my 4 Axemen near Persian city,
waiting it rises to size 2.

1400 BC (maybe)
Got Alphabet, start tech trading with Brennus and Washington
got Hunting, Archery, Sailing, Masonry for Writing.

1320
I decided Attack Cyrus and I conquered the city.
I go on with the war, moving toward Persian Capital,
I want to make peace as soon as I can, I hope to steal a worker.

1100 ???
Discovered Susa, and horses are not connected!!!!
If I can get this city I can neglect Immortals to Cyrus.

1000
Susa Conquered, Peace with Cyrus and I get Mysticism

[Thomas Hobbes]

My first DAR
Monarch Difficulty
Normal game speed

As I like a strong capital, I moved my settler south and a bit west, founded London and built two Work Boats as well as one settler, which built York in the east.


(Screenshot taken 2320 BC)

My tech path was as follows:
Mysticism --> Meditation (founding Buddhism in London) --> Bronze Working --> Iron Working.
I wanted to find and hook up Iron as early as possible, as I'd rather attack Cyrus with Swordsmen than Axemen, fearing his Immortals.

The Settler London is currently 'producing', went to the east and after the research of Iron Working, built Nottingham. The Iron was connected with three workers after researching The Wheel.



The subsequent tech path was:
Agriculture --> Pottery --> Priesthood and now Writing.

London is 7 turns away from building Stonehenge, while the other two cities are busy preparing for war.

I did switch to slavery, but completely forgot to convert to Buddhism; the unhappy citizens in York were later 'forced' to serve as swordsmen.

I was unfortunate to only pop one goody hut (the one at the start), which gave me a map. Two scouting warriors were lost to animals. Having no 'free gold' to start with can seriously hamper your early research.