Give Techs to vassels yes or no?

[Beatie]

I have something to think about.. I don't know what is the right option is this matter.

I have No technology brokering put on, so they can only trade techs they invented there self.

I am playing the mod "Rise of manking" but that is not the point. I think this counts for normal BTS games as well.

I have 5 vassels atm. I am number one in everyting. Number 2 are the maya's there about 100.000 beakers behind me I think. They have 3 vassels. I think there sharing there techs with there vassels. I don't. I did give a few ones to get some better military units.

Shall i give the all my techs to my vassels so that there can researh other techs that I don't have yet?

Btw is this mod the earth is super huge, and with about 30 civs on the map

[Egbert]

The AI does give its techs to vassals. Always as a gift, never as a trade. It appears to be limited to one gift per turn so it may take a while for all techs to be gifted to a vassal. The consequence is that a vassal can thus outresearch its master (vassal gets all techs gifted from master but does not gift techs to master).

I do give techs to my vassals but my generosity very much depends upon who my vassal is and its capacity for research.

If I have an aggressive vassal, such as Montezuma or Shaka, I gift the bare minimum they need to defend their territory. BTW I only accept the aggressive civs as vassals by way of utterly defeating them in war and only when they are too small to have any chance of shaking of vassalage. Even then I seldom vassalise them as I would rather completely destroy them. (Their existence antagonises the peaceful civs with whom I like to maintain good relations and they have a very high desire to break the vassalage).

The peaceful civs, such as Elizabeth and Hatshepsut, are always welcome as vassals. I find them more reliable vassals. If they are small I am generous with tech but I may withhold space techs to avoid the possibility of them beating me in a space race. I also keep in mind that they will trade any tech they research so I might tell them what to research. I may hold back a tech which my enemies have and tell my vassals to research that tech.

Depending on the situation, I might use a vassal as a tech trading partner. I research one tech while they research another and then the vassal gouges me for a trade. I have tech brokering turned off so I research the tech I least want my vassal to tech whore to my enemies.

What I do depends thus upon the situation.

[Beatie]

[Braindead wrote]but I may withhold space techs to avoid the possibility of them beating me in a space race. I also keep in mind that they will trade any tech they research so I might tell them what to research. I may hold back a tech which my enemies have and tell my vassals to research that tech.

I thought about that myself.. I was worried about give so mutch tech to them that they can beat me in space race. Basicaly is what your saying if there small it not a problem because they have very little beakers. Bigger vassels can be a problem... Give techs but not the ones that they need to build a spaceship. But meanwhile they can help me.. the only down side is that because I have currently 7 vassels, I can't share techs that one of my vassels invented with my other vassels.

Thanks for your good insight on this matter

Now.. back to my "Rise of mankind" mod

[Egbert]

The vassals can swap techs amongst themselves, particularly at the higher difficulty levels when they get/give price discounts on trades. On the downside, one can not prevent them tech whoring with rivals.

I find Elizabeth to be the most formidable researcher with her financial trait and her preference for free religion. Later in the game when she has her land improved and improvements in her cities she can do very well as a vassal. I need to take some care that she does not get into a position to outresearch me and tech whore to my rivals. (If she is in the game I go after her as a voluntary vassal and aim to keep her as a reasonably strong and useful vassal. I find her useful and relatively loyal).

A medium sized Elizabeth may actually be better off as my vassal for research. When independent she tends to be in long and regular wars getting her lands pillaged. As a vassal the wars are normally shorter, and attacking wats fought on enemy territory, with me as a guaranteed ally and perhaps my other vassals and allies. As a vassal her land gets developed and stays developed.

[Beatie]

The vassals can swap techs amongst themselves, particularly at the higher difficulty levels when they get/give price discounts on trades. On the downside, one can not prevent them tech whoring with rivals.

they can't swap techs because I have 'no technology brokering' marked on. I've try it.... I brought me one tech... but mostly they are just to slow with techs.. but hey... I give mostly all my techs to my vassels. and they kick ass now I have a few wars fight out very quickly this way. I love my vassels now... we all are close friends now

[Brael]

I gift everything to my vassals including resources. Typically when I take a vassal it's because it's more trouble than it's worth to wipe them out (such as needing to build a navy to reach their cities). I'm never worried about them out teching me, a powerful civ struggles to out tech me in any meaningful way... a vassal has no chance. The way I see it, if I give them tech they can better defend themselves and it's possible they get enough tech to improve their economy that I can use them to backfill techs I've skipped. Mainly though I just want them better able to defend themselves, that way when we goto war with someone they kill a couple extra units which just lets me conquer someone else easier.

The resource gifting is for corporations. Unless I have a significant need for a resource of my vassals I always gift them resources so that they become a little stronger off of corporations and I rake in a bunch of money from them.

As for my usual map settings so you can get an idea of why I make these decisions I play almost exclusively deity+raging barbs+no tech brokering on either continents or big and small with large maps (12-14 civs). Sometimes I'll put some AI's on teams which gives them to potential to be far stronger militarily, but it comes at the expense of making them significantly weaker if you can take out one team member (such as them being separated from each other).

[Beatie]

I gift everything to my vassals including resources. Typically when I take a vassal it's because it's more trouble than it's worth to wipe them out (such as needing to build a navy to reach their cities). I'm never worried about them out teching me, a powerful civ struggles to out tech me in any meaningful way... a vassal has no chance. The way I see it, if I give them tech they can better defend themselves and it's possible they get enough tech to improve their economy that I can use them to backfill techs I've skipped. Mainly though I just want them better able to defend themselves, that way when we goto war with someone they kill a couple extra units which just lets me conquer someone else easier.

The resource gifting is for corporations. Unless I have a significant need for a resource of my vassals I always gift them resources so that they become a little stronger off of corporations and I rake in a bunch of money from them.

As for my usual map settings so you can get an idea of why I make these decisions I play almost exclusively deity+raging barbs+no tech brokering on either continents or big and small with large maps (12-14 civs). Sometimes I'll put some AI's on teams which gives them to potential to be far stronger militarily, but it comes at the expense of making them significantly weaker if you can take out one team member (such as them being separated from each other).

I have just won a game on huge map, I had vasselized about 9 civs, and give all techs to the top 5 of them (the nice ones) and they did a awesome job with my war against the other huge civ. They helped me a lot! I love this tactic! Yes, you need to put a mark on "no technology brokering". Because if not, they sell all techs away for very little money. This was a very fun game to play. I never go higher then monarch level.... I guess I am not good enough for that to win games with at the highest levels..