Using Great People - Does settling stink?

[BvBPL]

I haven’t played a lot of Civ IV and I wonder how do folks use the great people you earn? I’ve mostly been expending them for technology, expending special abilities (great work of art, academy, insta-wonder etc), and the occasional golden age. And corporations, of course. I’ve never settled one as a super specialist as it doesn’t seem worthwhile to me. Am I wrong?

Take the super merchant who earns 6 gold / turn. Discounting things like Representation, World Wonders, or cultural abilities, but including Wall Street and the other +gold common buildings, the super merchant would appear to earn 12 gold / turn. A fair sum, but the unit could also be used to open a trade mission (call it 2,500 gold, although I am unsure what a typical trade mission brings in) or speed some research. Assuming a trade mission brings in 2,500 gold on average, it would take over 100 turns for the super merchant to earn a profit relative to the trade mission. Super scientists are similar, brining about 13.5 beakers / turn versus the ~1100 lab points for expending him. Here, it would take more than eighty turns to break even. I didn’t break down the artist, but presumably the finding is similar, that it takes a while for a super artist in the city to match the culture generated by a great work.

Obviously there are a far number of situational modifiers that may affect one’s choice, but assuming that the above is accurate, it doesn’t look like it is generally a good idea to settle most great people. Sure, settling them eventually pays off, but it takes a fair number of turns that might benefit from the instant gain you receive when you sack the great person.

[BvBPL]

Err... my math is off there. An optimized should be producing 18 gold a turn and the scientist 19.5 beakers (this w/o a monastery). Sorta changes the picture, a bit, but that's still a healthy time to wait for the settled guy to "make a profit."

[wodan11]

Settling is best early on, obviously. But so is making an Academy. Great work is of limited use but good if used well. Using an Engineer to pop a Wonder can be huge; don't forget that not only can he let you get a wonder that otherwise you would get beat out by the AI, but you get the benefits of the Wonder X turns earlier. (Depending on the wonder; use Great Lighthouse as an example. Say you have 10 coastal cities and the trade routes are worth an average of 3 each. So that's an extra 60 commerce / turn, for X turns. Say X is 30, that's 1800 commerce.)

Back to Settling. Best early, and best in the same city (your Oxford city, or Wall Street city). Also best if you have a super GP farm (do you know what that is?) producing many of the same type of GP (usually scientists).

You also have to consider the rest of your empire. If you're running a CE, then golden ages late game are pretty powerful... powerful enough that it's worth trying to produce lots of different types of GP, and then saving them for much of the game (even though they will cost maintenance).

[BvBPL]

Re: settling GPs early a good idea.

I don’t think it is. Discussing great scientists, if you receive your first two during the classical and medieval periods, you’d build an academy for the first one and then need to pick between settling your second one or popping it for 1500+ tech points (or a second academy, or a Golden Age). Settling the scientist would likely earn you 10.5 beakers / turn with an academy and a library and it would require over 140 turns for the scientist to “break even” against popping it for research. Even accounting for monasteries and the eventual addition of a university and Oxford, you’re looking at least 100 turns before breaking even.

The game only last for, what, 460 turns, right? So being generous and assuming you receive your second great scientist on turn 115 at the one quarter mark of the game, you’ll be earning a beaker profit on a settled scientist for a bit more than one half of the game. That’s great BUT it also means you are denying yourself the early free tech from the great scientist. You’ll win out in the end with a settled scientist, but by not popping him, you lose out of on some extra turns where you have Guilds, or Optics, or Gunpowder and your rivals do not. I my mind, the early technology advantage outweighs the expected beaker profit you will earn in the future.

Great Scientist seem to be the most straightforward example against settling. The other GPs seem to be a lot more situational, but it still generally looks like settling is a poor idea.

[Sirotnikov]

is it me or is great merchant the least interesting of the bunch?

rushing with gold comes in rather late. trading other civs for money also takes time to get to, and isn't very cost effective.

[Thoth]

is it me or is great merchant the least interesting of the bunch?

rushing with gold comes in rather late. trading other civs for money also takes time to get to, and isn't very cost effective.

That depends.

A GM trade mission can be use to fund deficit research for many turns or it can fund a cat/treb upgrade to cannons to double your empire size after Libbing Steel.

Earlier, GS bulbing to get to Philosophy, University, PP, Chem tends to be more powerful, but a lot depends on the map and your empire set up.

[Garth Vader]

Also upgrading all your CR3 Maces to rifles takes a lot of cash

[Egbert]

Game speed is also a factor. Playing at marathon speed making settling much more appealing.