"We just don't like you enough"

[Theben]

About 50 gold nets a +4 relation bonus IF you give it upon 1st contact.

[Brael]

I usually do 100, some civs don't give +4 from 50. I also only do it to civs I want to be friendly with for awhile, usually ones on another continent.

[MyOlde]

Okay, now what happens when the civ demands something really big, you turn him down, but then come up with a gift of something you're willing to part with? He or she demands Rifling, say, but you turn him down and then give him horseback riding. Does that achieve anything? Similarly with money: if he wants 1500 gold and you turn round and give him 100, does that satisfy him? I try that a lot but don't know if it does anything.

[Boracks]

What I tend to do, if I want to keep relations decent, is refuse the request (for -1) and then sell something less valuable for cheap, often getting +3 or +4 for trade relations. This results in a net +2 or 3 for awhile.

The refusal lasts long, the trade relation does wear off sooner but gives you time to maneuver. And I often get a nice amount of gold to help the economy, and sometimes their maps (I never trade mine).

[Hauptman]

Each Civ is very different...

Some civs will never love you unless you give them that 1 special thing they love. No matter what else you give them, it wont count as good as thier "special"...

Such as;

Isabella, share a religion.
Tokugawa, share a war.
Ramses, share a civic.
Mansa, share a tech.

Etc...

[MyOlde]

Why would you not trade maps, Boracks? Not ever?

[Boracks]

Personal choice. And I often already know everything so there's no benefit to me, just to the other side. I admit, having spent some years in recon, that I do tend to explore as much as I can as soon as I can, even if not really necessary.

But the big thing is, it is rarely of any real benefit to me and often a benefit to them, so I just don't trade the map.

[Theben]

I'll trade maps after I get the +1 "round the world" move bonus, if I feel secure enough, and if I'll get a good chunk of gold for it.

[MyOlde]

Well now, what's the "round the world" bonus?

[Theben]

The 1st civ to "circumnavigate" the globe gets +1 move on all ships. You don't have to, of course... just need your maps to connect all the way around.

[Brael]

You're missing out on some good money by not trading maps. A great source of income during the renaissance era is to make 2-3 boats and send them off doing automated (you could do manual too) exploration after circumnavigation goes off. Then sell your map to every civ, every turn if they can afford to pay. On a large map it's worth an additional 200 gold/turn or so.

That type of additional income buys you a nice tech lead.

[Cort Haus]

Okay, now what happens when the civ demands something really big, you turn him down, but then come up with a gift of something you're willing to part with? He or she demands Rifling, say, but you turn him down and then give him horseback riding. Does that achieve anything? Similarly with money: if he wants 1500 gold and you turn round and give him 100, does that satisfy him? I try that a lot but don't know if it does anything.

I usually find it is better to give them what they want, if possible. One thing to consider with demands for valuable techs though is that they have sometimes put a lot of research into it already, and all you're doing is finishing it off for them. So, if they're going to get Rifling one-or-two turns later anyway, it might not make much difference, and you get get the +1 gift/tribute. The flip side is that you may get less +fair trade for the nearly-finished tech than for an unresearched one. Relatively old techs give very little though.

Either way, the base difference is +2 if you agree to their request/demand, so any alternative you give them has to be at least +3 fair trade to be better. If you're already +2 this won't be possible *and* it usually decays quicker anyway.

[Cort Haus]

PS - I very much doubt they'll rate HBR if they're after Rifling.

[Cort Haus]

No, but I was in good relations with Shaka, he declared war on me and now that we are at peace and he's still at war with somebody else I am trying to rebuild relations.

I gave money and resources but haven't seen any relations bump. I'll end up just finishing this game with my heel.

Resources take a while to pay off. You don't get +fair trade IIRC but you eventually get +1 shared resources. An intangible benefit of resources might be a reluctance for them to Declare War.

50 gold is worth a lot of diplo very early on but is probably worth very little later. As the game offers little info on this, there's a case of playing a 'Test' game where lots of gifting and reloading goes on to gain some understanding of the mechanics here.

[Brael]

When you're gifting gold it's a function of how long you've known the civ rather than how far into the game you are. It can be 2049 AD when you meet a civ for the first time and that 50 gold will go a long ways. Or meet someone on the first turn and 50 won't do much by 1 ad.