Al Gore Challenge

[Ming]

Why does it go to theocracy... that's a dead end tech path and not needed for computers?

[Norselord]

Meant theology.

Theology is on the path.

[wertyu70]

I gave up my try (Noble, Epic, Washington), it was a nightmare.
Tech order is crazy:
Currency after Engineering,
Code Of Laws is after Steam Power...

And since Writing is tech number 8 or something,
You will not get border expansion.

I will try again at Settler level, and with another leader (a creative leader, starting with Agriculture).

Besides:
Why Huge map and Marathon speed?

[Norselord]

I guess people can use any map they want. At any speed.

I have scaled back and done Prince, Large, Epic.

The border expansion is a huge problem. The solutions are: starting with mysticism and building henge, popping mysticism from a goodie-hut, having someone spread a religion early, or being creative.

Another issue I have run into is money. Even with only 5-6 cities the crunch comes in hard, since currency isn't researched until quite late. Specialist economy is pretty much off the table, so cottage is the only way to go. Nevertheless, it is slow going. I find that I have to declare war around engineering time to make money to keep research afloat. Interesting thing about these wars is that you will only have axes/spears/cats against your opponents HA/Mace/Longbow and sometimes even early guns. The key is to build hundreds of cats...I have managed a few decent wars that way.

I think my next game, instead of going random, I will choose my own leader. Since my problems have been border expansion and money, it would seem like a no-brainer to run as the dutch.

Also, there are very few wonders that can be realistically built at Prince with this tech path; stonehenge and colossus.

[Blaupanzer]

Can't build Collossus because it requires a forge and we aren't allowed buildings that pollute, such as that forge. The no chopping makes for some interesting city perameters. I went huge and marathon again with Washington. I permit trading on the path. Think diplo is broken, so turned it off too. So the only victories are time, culture, and space. Almost to the end of the challenge part as to techs, just got to Steel first but still have musket/macemen army. Railroad will fix my defenses for the riflemen/grenadiers around me. Huge, Marathon, 1 research path to computers selected on turn 1 and stuck to until internet is complete, no chopping of forests (keeping the jungle for all game was a bit much to ask), no trading or lightbulbing for techs off the path, Only time, culture and space race victories allowed.

[wertyu70]

Good leaders to try:
William
Huyna Capac
Louis
Gilgamesh

They starts with Agriculture and have a way to generate Culture early.

Blaupanzer, which level are you trying? Noble?

[Norselord]

These are the detailed settings I am using:
- Domination and conquest OFF
- Tech brokering allowed.
- No player trading for any techs (even on the path), only trading techs for war bribes, peace bribes, and money.
- Chopping forests allowed (tried without and its too hard)
- pollution buildings allowed (forges are necessary to keep early low-tech army numbers high enough)
- Click on computers turn 1 and keep research unchanged.

As everyone has stated, the tech order is really screwy; especially the early metalworking/machinery, and by the time you get to the first 4-5 religious techs they take less than 3 turns to research.

The only way to get techs off of the tech-path is to get lucky with a goodie-hut. Is it therefore cheating if you play with a civ that starts with a scout and builds a scout first?

The balance between military and teching is very delicate in this challenge. For a while you will be the most military tech backward, and have to spend hammers to make up for this in sheer numbers. But in order to get to computers as quickly as possible a significant proportion of hammers needs to go to research.

I think Willem might do well with the Agri and Fin traits, faster library building, and cottage econ. Not sure what tech# will give ****s, but it may help power the last few techs through to computers (tech #53 or #54 depending on starting techs)

[Blaupanzer]

Yes, on Noble. I am ahead in techs and number 1 in army, but both happiness and health are real challenges as you have no AH, no pigs, sheep, and no camps so no deer, ivory or beaver. The latter is especially a hassle as I have 7 beaver in easy reach of my cities and can't use them. There no way to reset the culture rate without drama so I am forced to stay in HR way longer than normal to preserve happiness. Sticking with the no chop forest and no polluting buildings and I am 1st in production as I reached steel. (No Ironworks allowed either -- needs forge anyway. Interesting to see if I can win a space victory.

Incidentally I have won two wars and am number one in power and soldiers despite the crazy research trail. So, at least at Noble it seems doable if you can get by the very slow research times for marathon with that path.

[Norselord]

Yes, on Noble. I am ahead in techs and number 1 in army, but both happiness and health are real challenges as you have no AH, no pigs, sheep, and no camps so no deer, ivory or beaver. The latter is especially a hassle as I have 7 beaver in easy reach of my cities and can't use them. There no way to reset the culture rate without drama so I am forced to stay in HR way longer than normal to preserve happiness. Sticking with the no chop forest and no polluting buildings and I am 1st in production as I reached steel. (No Ironworks allowed either -- needs forge anyway. Interesting to see if I can win a space victory.

Incidentally I have won two wars and am number one in power and soldiers despite the crazy research trail. So, at least at Noble it seems doable if you can get by the very slow research times for marathon with that path.

Pretty impressive! Especially since you are going the 'zero pollution' route. Are you tech-trading along the path? If so, do you limit yourself to only the tech you are currently researching or is it any tech on the path?

Who are you playing as?

In one of my games I started with hunting, and the big plus was being able to use war elephants.

[Norselord]

OK.

Willem, great start, wonderful syergy with tech path, only...

...montezuma as nearest neighbour <> good.



That psycho is too hard to hold back. I tried everything to keep him happy, but he just ended up wasting me. Badly.

I'm going to give it one more shot at Prince level with Willem, before i drop it down to Noble.

[Blaupanzer]

I am playing as Washington. Just finished railroad. I am trading for techs on the path and not just the one in research at the moment.

Traded for Scientific Method, but unfortunately all my oils (3 each) are at sea. (3 oils, one for each capitol I actually control. That's one risk of making the fractal map choice I made initially. Anyway, Plastics is on the path. Will pick the oils up then.

Recent "most advanced" list indicates I am in 6th without those early techs, interesting to see where I'll be once the Internet is built. (That is 6th of 10 total, I ate Spain early on.)

[wertyu70]

I'm trying with William at Settler level, Epic speed, if I realize it's too easy I will move up a level.
I think I could get a Conquest or Domination victory in early AD rushing with Muskets+catapults, all AIs have just 2 cities...

[Norselord]

I'm trying with William at Settler level, Epic speed, if I realize it's too easy I will move up a level.
I think I could get a Conquest or Domination victory in early AD rushing with Muskets+catapults, all AIs have just 2 cities...

Isn't the spirit of the challenge to build the InterWebz? If you win before that, then you didn't really achieve the Al Gore challenge.

Thinking about doing willem on Archipelgo, Prince, Epic. I may have to move down to Noble, if I keep failing as badly as I have been.

[wertyu70]

Infact i didn't rush, even if I could.

[Blaupanzer]

Conquest and domination should be turned off, per the earlier definition of the challenge.

Once I got to Assembly Line and then Industrialism, I realized how tough this challenge is. With no Rifling, none of the units on the path are available except muskets, cannons, some earlier medieval types, AND: Machine Guns. So I have 13 cities with 43 MGs and 73 muskets, 50 cannons. I'm still number one in power, but the only way it workes is if they attack me.

Okay, finally get Computers, must build internet, which is double speed with copper, but my best city is going to take 50+ turns to build it (no factories, forges, or engineers -- using priests for their hammers). Got to Radio way ahead of the rest for Rock'n'Roll and Cristo, but can't build the Eiffel Tower as no forges.

(NOTE: I did capture two cities with forges --not productive enough to help with the Eiffel Tower - and I can't identify anyway to get rid of them. Am I right that once built a building stays unless lost to combat?)

On chopping, my uranium showed up in squares with trees. I made an exception and chopped those forests. Having kept all these woods leads to great health at this stage of the game.

Note: I am still in HR as I cannot set the culture rate without Drama. Thus the specialists are not generating three extra science each. 10% culture rate would do it for the BIG cities and for the newly conquered whose parent civ still exists. (They are yapping "I want my Mommy land!")

In spirit that The Internet is to max given techs, I studied Robotics, Flight, and Rocketry while waiting for the wonder. Even at that, Flight was known by at least two before I finished it. I resisted the temptation to trade off the path once the path was complete until the actual Internet was done.

Have it now, and am upgrading units like crazy. (Had $26,000 in the treasury for this, built with 20% treasury and 80% science for the last several hundred turns.) Cities have lots of cottages and production centers (read railroaded lumbermills). Culture victory looks out of the question so shooting for a space race victory.