The game plays me more than I play the game I think.

[City Builder]

I think the game plays me more than I play the game...

What I mean is that I just don't know what the heck I should be doing so instead of figuring out anything I simply follow along with the suggestions on what to build.

I'd really like to break out of this shell and start coming up with some ideas on what to build, why I should build those things and when they should be built so that I'm not letting the game play itself and I'm just mashing down a mouse button and the space bar to move from turn to turn.

Dont get me wrong, if I play CIV4 long enough I get to the point where I can declare war on some other party and win or lose, I usually know what I'm doing when it comes to forming some basic strategy for war.

It's all the build this or build that which just leaves me picking one of the suggested items instead of really knowing what's going on more time than naught.

I'd sure appreciate it if anybody could give me a link to a good primer that helps me to get more out of CIV 4 than just mashing down the mouse button and the space bar to move from turn to turn.

Edit: Also, is there an option that will allow the game to move on in turns without my having to push the spacebar or click the next turn button? Something like when I make my last move, the game will automatically move onto the next turn? I just want to use something like this to get over the intial xxx turns while I'm building stuff in the beginning and not doing much else (which obviously most if not all will tell me I'm playing the game wrong, which is why I need some sort of primer to help me out).

Thanks,

[a.kitman]

i dont have any links to guids but when i started to play civ 4 i was like you. the thing that got me to look deeper into the game was starting to play whit specialist.
you know the guys on the right in the city screen that you use instead of working a tile.
they really opened up the game for me. also look into the great people they generate.

sorry for not giving any straight advice but half the fun is getting there.

[Cort Haus]

Specialise your cities. Where there are hills, irrigate and mine for a production city, then build barracks & stable then build units there. Production cities can also be used for wonders. Where there is ample grassland, add cottages and prioritise science improvements. If you have a shrine, spread your religion via a dedicated missionary city (a small production city is sufficient) and build prioritise gold improvements. Add happiness and health improvements to all cities as and when required. If you have a very high food site, build the National Epic, run lots of specialists (via appropriate buildings or running Caste System) and generate great people.

[City Builder]

Why?

Sorry, I know that may sound flippant (although it's not meant to be), but what you've told me to do, might as well be the game telling me to do it. If you have a moment perhaps you could explain why I would do those things, then I'd better understand for the future.

[Brael]

If you have a moment perhaps you could explain why I would do those things, then I'd better understand for the future.

Specialise your cities.

By specializing your cities you can reduce the number of improvements you need to build in each one while still getting the full benefit of the city. It's efficient basically. On top of that, a city can only work so many tiles, by working a lot of commerce tiles it can't work many production tiles so a city where you want markets, banks, grocers, libraries, and so on already has it's hands full just building those buildings. A hammer city on the otherhand is used for units and wonders, if it has to build things like a bank, library, market, and so on it's not doing its job and pumping out those units/wonders.

Where there are hills, irrigate and mine for a production city

Until workshops are -1 food+3 hammers (or +4 hammers with railroad) the only good normal hammer tiles are mines. A production city is basically required by definition to have hills. It's a waste to use a city with food and hills on something other than production. Building wise a production city doesn't need many buildings. It's not generating much commerce so there's very very little value in any commerce increasing building, and science building, or any gold building. On the other hand because of a high hammer output it gets a high return from a forge, and is pumping out lots of units so will get lots of use out of a barracks and if you make mounted units, a stable.

Where there is ample grassland, add cottages and prioritise science improvements.

A high commerce city is going to get a high return from buildings which are based on commerce so that's why you build those improvements in a commerce city. Naturally, it won't have a high hammer output so it won't get many additional hammers from a forge, and because it will make very few if any units there isn't a point to making a barracks or stable.

If you have a shrine, spread your religion via a dedicated missionary city (a small production city is sufficient) and build prioritise gold improvements.

A holy city brings in a lot of additional gold if it builds its shrine by using a great prophet. This gold gets modified by gold buildings, meaning that even in a low commerce city a gold building is going to bring you a lot of additional money because there's such a high base to work off of. When spreading religion you're basically paying 80 hammers to bring in 1 gold/turn every turn. With no additional buildings a missionary pays for itself in 80 turns (you could build 80 hammers of wealth to make 80 gold). With just a market the missionary will pay for itself in 64 turns (that's marathon speed, it would be 21 turns on normal). Since it's free money basically, missionaries are a great long term investment, but they require a city dedicated to them in order to really make use of them.

Add happiness and health improvements to all cities as and when required.

Caps are only relevant if you're actually reaching them. If your city is running 10 unhappy and has a happy cap of 17 you could still add 7 unhappy with no negative effects, as a result it would be a waste of hammers to add more happy to the cap. The same logic holds for health.

If you have a very high food site, build the National Epic, run lots of specialists (via appropriate buildings or running Caste System) and generate great people.

The larger your food surplus the more specialists you can run. You always want to be running atleast 1 specialist city (even when using a cottage based economy) in order to generate great people. A city with a large surplus will be running the most specialists, as a result using the National Epic to double the GPP in that city would have the largest impact.

Do those explanations help?

[Theben]

Until workshops are -1 food+3 hammers (or +4 hammers with railroad)

Only 1 comment- RRs don't affect workshops.

[City Builder]

Thankyou, yes those explanations help a lot.

Much appreciated.

I don't know if this is even possible but if it is...

Is it possible that in multiplayer Civ 4 (BTS) that 2 human players can be on one team? I think I'd get this a whole lot faster if I could find somebody that wants to be a mentor and play on my team so that they can explain why we do the things that we do in the game, because I know the above is not even a snowflake out in the storm and would be really helpful to have a mentor to play with as time permits on both parties part.

If that's possible and if there is anybody that would be willing to be a mentor, please let me know. Other than monday mornings until about noon and friday until about 6, the rest of the week is mine to do as I please so I'd be very flexible on when we could play. If there is a better place to ask for a mentor (if it's even possible) on Apolyton.net please let me know and I'll repost there.

Thanks again,

[Theben]

Go to the multiplaying section of the forums and join in rah's friday night games. Odds are you'll get your hat handed to you several times but it's the quickest way to learn how to play well.

EDIT: And yes you can have another human or AI be part of your team. the problem is that since you share your tech discoveries/research and wonder benefits, it really doesn't help. Better to play as separate civs and ask for advice whenever a situation requires it.

[Thoth]

@CityBuilder: You could try posting a save and asking for advice. MP and SP are very different animals, advice that is good for one isn't necessarily good for the other.

[Brael]

Only 1 comment- RRs don't affect workshops.

No but mines do. A mine is 1/3 or 0/4, +1 from railroad. I probably wasn't clear there, but my point was workshops not being all that great until they had enough bonuses to rival mines.

[Thoth]

No but mines do. A mine is 1/3 or 0/4, +1 from railroad. I probably wasn't clear there, but my point was workshops not being all that great until they had enough bonuses to rival mines.

The way you phrased it, it sounded to me like you were claiming that railroads improved the yields of workshops.

Workshops are worth working once you have any two of: Caste, Guilds, Chemistry or State property. If you have all of the above they are superior to even railroaded mines.

[City Builder]

A saved game from me wouldn't do much good since like I mentioned I tend to follow the suggested items, even though I have been trying to break free, it still seems that I follow the suggestions mostly.

I'm currently playing one game where I'm doing ok, and I do grasp some things better now, like what to tell my workers to do depending on what I need be it more gold or whatever. I do tend to take them off automation more and control them directly a bit more now.

I don't suppose there is a way to simply "watch" a multiplayer game is there? Maybe simply listen in and watch what others are doing as I'm really not a competitive player against real players, I'd rather do that with the AI, that's just my nature. Or maybe there are "replays" like some other games offer? As you can see I really don't know much about C4 and the functionality that it has yet.

Anyway, thanks for the advise.

[Brael]

The way you phrased it, it sounded to me like you were claiming that railroads improved the yields of workshops.

Workshops are worth working once you have any two of: Caste, Guilds, Chemistry or State property. If you have all of the above they are superior to even railroaded mines.

Ya, when I went back and reread it I certainly didn't phrase that very well. I was trying to avoid getting sidetracked and explaining railroads boosting mine and quarry output but just made it more confusing.

Anyways, I agree about having any two of what you listed. Then if you have all four of them things get really insane (though free market+food corporation is certainly a good rival to state property, and caste vs emancipation later on is important to take into consideration as well).

A saved game from me wouldn't do much good since like I mentioned I tend to follow the suggested items, even though I have been trying to break free, it still seems that I follow the suggestions mostly.

I'm currently playing one game where I'm doing ok, and I do grasp some things better now, like what to tell my workers to do depending on what I need be it more gold or whatever. I do tend to take them off automation more and control them directly a bit more now.

I don't suppose there is a way to simply "watch" a multiplayer game is there? Maybe simply listen in and watch what others are doing as I'm really not a competitive player against real players, I'd rather do that with the AI, that's just my nature. Or maybe there are "replays" like some other games offer? As you can see I really don't know much about C4 and the functionality that it has yet.

Anyway, thanks for the advise.

Game saves actually help a lot more than you would think. Not only does it let people give feedback beyond what is specifically mentioned in a post, but it lets those giving you help see how you're implementing suggestions and how well you're balancing the various aspects of your empire.

As for multiplayer games, I think you're going about things wrong. The AI reacts different to a human and MP strategies tend to revolve around fighting people not AI's when it's FFA, or around team strategies when it's multiple people against AI's.

If I were you I would look at the recounts people do of their own games, those are what I used to read from some very good players in order to bring my own game up. Sadly, the ones I used to read are no longer around but there's still lots of others. On this board you can find them in the AU section. Look for threads containing DAR (during action report) in the title. There's a few in the general forum as well, here's one I posted a few months back though I wouldn't call it a good game because I went very light on units for a game that was immortal+raging barbs (of course, the flip side to that is I went light on units because I could get away with it) and was trying out some modifications on unit exp rules that had me curious.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?t=189819

[Thoth]

Anyways, I agree about having any two of what you listed. Then if you have all four of them things get really insane (though free market+food corporation is certainly a good rival to state property, and caste vs emancipation later on is important to take into consideration as well).

If you have the appropriate resources then Sid's Sushi and Mining Inc can pay great dividends. Eventually. Spreading corporations has a cost in terms of hammers (building executives and courthouses), cash (paying for corporation spread) and Great People.

With State Property, the payoff is much faster: +10% production in all cities, no distance maintenance (which also means no Colonial maintenance if you are playing with vassal states on, and courthouses become a great deal less necessary), and +1 food from every workshop and waterwheel. SP can turbocharge your empire very quickly.

I find SP is stronger when going for an earlyish win via conquest/domination, and the Corporate route is stronger when going for a later win via Space Race or cultural.

Both have their uses depending on in game circumstances.

Game saves actually help a lot more than you would think. Not only does it let people give feedback beyond what is specifically mentioned in a post, but it lets those giving you help see how you're implementing suggestions and how well you're balancing the various aspects of your empire.

As for multiplayer games, I think you're going about things wrong. The AI reacts different to a human and MP strategies tend to revolve around fighting people not AI's when it's FFA, or around team strategies when it's multiple people against AI's.

If I were you I would look at the recounts people do of their own games, those are what I used to read from some very good players in order to bring my own game up. Sadly, the ones I used to read are no longer around but there's still lots of others. On this board you can find them in the AU section. Look for threads containing DAR (during action report) in the title. There's a few in the general forum as well, here's one I posted a few months back though I wouldn't call it a good game because I went very light on units for a game that was immortal+raging barbs (of course, the flip side to that is I went light on units because I could get away with it) and was trying out some modifications on unit exp rules that had me curious.
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?t=189819

Agreed. MP and SP are very different games, and an approach that is strong in one, will not necessarily be strong in the other. (ie: building a worker as your first build is the strongest opening in 90+% of SP games. In MP, this will likely result in an early demise at the hands of a neighbour who built 3 warriors instead).

If you are mainly interested in SP then posting up a save would give you input from a number of different people with different playstyles.

If you are mainly interested in MP, then a trip over to the MP forum would likely be of more use than trying for advice here.

[City Builder]

Thanks,

Just want to make sure that I have this straight since one of my buddies on another forum has apparently been playing Civ for a long long time now (mostly singleplayer) and would like to play teams against the AI in multiplayer.

So...
The AI player is programmed to play different in singleplayer than it is to play in multiplayer? Or does the AI play the way it plays and adapts to how the human is playing?