Double Quecha Rush

[Blaupanzer]

I don't do it often so I don't consider it an exploit. I have been known to build a city at the diag of their cap to keep pressure culture wise on their cap. Works best if I'm creative and they're not.

These are both exploits, whether or not they are ever used. Hopefully, rah is making a joke, and we'll all laugh together. Edit: rah says yes we're all laughing together.

[Ming]

Why do people consider chocking an "exploit". Is it because it's so effective? Because if that's the case, anything else you do that works could be considered an exploit as well.

[rah]

Yes, choking the AI is an exploit only because the AI doesn't know how to handle it. While a human can be crippled by it, at least he know what has to be done to break it. But knowledge is no guarantee of ability to break it.

I don't consider building close to an AI an exploit. The AI knows how to use this strat and will build on the edge of my culture wherever there is room. To not do the same is silly.

[Brael]

Why do people consider chocking an "exploit". Is it because it's so effective? Because if that's the case, anything else you do that works could be considered an exploit as well.

My guess would be because the AI can't handle it. I don't see a problem with it but for the maintenance cost of a couple of units outside your borders you can completely shut an AI down. In my most recent game I did it to Brennus while playing as the Zulu. I fortified 4 Impi total, 2 by his capital and 1 by each of his other 2 cities and pillaged all his few hooked up resources. All he did in response was build archers in his cities, leave the archers there, and occasionally send an unescorted settler out (which would become a new worker for me). It was one of the worst things I've ever seen from the AI.

[rah]

Especially when it finally gets enough archers that it could probably break the choke but does not attempt it.

[Ming]

The AI doesn't handle "research slings" like a human player, so I guess that's an exploit as well.
The AI also has an "interesting" approach to the tech tree... so I guess the human bee lining key techs is an exploit as well.
The AI sucks at combat and doesn't handle that very well either, so I guess anytime you go to war, that's really just an exploit also.

[Brael]

The AI atleast attempts those things, even if it doesn't do them with the same level of efficiency as a human. A choke it just sits back and takes even when it can break the choke (or worse, break the choke and then beat you in a war).

[Ming]

But it does try to break the choke... just not at the same level of efficiency as a human

So I really don't see why it is considered an exploit when other areas of the game where we can Kick the AI aren't.

[Blaupanzer]

The AI doesn't handle "research slings" like a human player, so I guess that's an exploit as well.
The AI also has an "interesting" approach to the tech tree... so I guess the human bee lining key techs is an exploit as well.
The AI sucks at combat and doesn't handle that very well either, so I guess anytime you go to war, that's really just an exploit also.

When someone points out an exploit, I take it to mean the AI is not programmed to do that same thing. Yes we all have a hard time breaking a choke. However, in all my SP games, I can't remember the AI ever even trying a choke on me or on each other. Thus a choke smells like an exploit.

The AI will "sling" to theology and philosophy; it does tech, however quirkily; and it makes big stacks to fight attrition warfare. So the fact that we do these things "better" is an advantage, but not an exploit.

[Ming]

The AI never does an early rush as early as a human player does...

I've never seen an AI use their first great spy early in the game against a human to get a big esp advantage, and then steal a bunch of techs...

The AI never bee lines construction...

The AI isn't programmed to do these things, so I guess these all smell like eploits too

[Garth Vader]

Sometimes beelining cats or cannons feels like an exploit. The AI doesn't seem programmed to select proper techs when a war is probable, or even ongoing.

[Ming]

That's the point I'm trying to make. people whine like choking is an exploit, but many of the strategies players use in SP could be considered exploits as well based on the loose definition being applied by people.

But I guess people don't want their favorite strategies labeled as exploits

[wodan11]

Well I don't know who "people" are but if you're talking about me I was just observing that I think it is an exploit and therefore I don't usually do it myself. No whining involved.

Anyway, the AI neither does or handles well a choke attack. Your counter examples, such as beelining Construction, is not an exploit IMO because, even if the AI does not do it (something I'm not sure I would grant without testing), the AI handles it just fine. So the human can get Cats or Elephants a little early. Strong? Yes. An exploit? No. What's the AI doing while you do that? Probably beelining to get Maces.

That said, I have stated and continue to posit that Civ V could use more intelligent AI. If they don't currently handle choke attacks or sometimes beeline Construction, then dammit, they should!

[Ming]

I'm just trying to figure out why it's considered an exploit when other things aren't. The AI doesn't do super early rushes, yet here we have a thread discussing one and nobody has called it an exploit. Many consider early rushes a great strategy if the situation dictates it, but again, the AI doesn't do it or handle it very well. So why is an early rush not an exploit, but choking is?

And by the way, the AI never beelines maceman either... or engineering. So no, the AI doesn't handle it just fine... they are just stupid and can be exploited

[rah]

It just comes down to personal preference.
If doing something make the game too easy for you, either don't do it or move up a level.
Some people have no problems opening up WB and either making sure they have what they need or just giving it to themselves. Deciding what makes the game easy should be decided by each individual.

For the record, I have seen the ai beeline construction. And they frequently beeline feud. Unfortunately they rarely use feud offensively.