What We Love About Espionage

[Norselord]

i guess i'm just trying to milk the ESP mechanic for all its worth. I want to try to find an alternative to my normal playstyle of being the first to a key military tech, build the most modern armor and then kick everyone's butt. I want to try to win a game through manipulation, and i want to use espionage, diplomacy, corporations, and a small highly trained army. Maybe an apt comparison would be that i want to try to play like Israel and less like the U.S. Although corporations probably doesn't fit correctly into that comparison.

It does seem to me that most people like to play in the style of the US, get rich and modern and large and then just shove everyone aside when the tipping point is reached.

[Norselord]

14. There are special random events that are triggered when you have enough espionage points or spies in the area. Can't think of what they are at the moment but there is the one with criminals fleeing from justice that can be interrogated, the one with the crashed airliner, and the one that allows your spies to make a natural disaster (or is it revolt) worse by destroying improvements around the city.

Event29
Looters
Prereq: at least one angry in neighboring player's city
Obsolete: None
Active/Weight: 70/100
Result:
1.one tile improvement is pillaged
2.you pay 40 gold AND 2 to 4 tile improvements are pillaged
3.you lose 50 Espionage points (with that player) AND 3 to 5 tile improvements are pillaged AND 2 to all buildings in that city are destroyed AND chance of 4
4.-2 Attitude with neighboring AI

thought the ESP was more...

[rah]

I've gotten that one quite frequently. but the i do target code early so i usually am the first up with courthouses.
So many sing the praises of esp that I'll have to give it another try. Must tame my blood lust.

[Ming]

It does seem to me that most people like to play in the style of the US, get rich and modern and large and then just shove everyone aside when the tipping point is reached.

I prefer starting conquest during the early windows of opportunity.

Early rush... If I have a strategic resourse early and a weak close by civ to attack
Cats... First to cats, first on the offensive
Tribs... In combination with maceman, longbowman are easy to take out
Cannons... Enough said. The AI never targets steel, so you have a long window of opportunity
Infantry... Who cares what they have
Tanks... Finish anybody else off if anybody is still left.

I've tried building a little more ESP into my play. But mostly by using the percentage against civs better, and building the ESP buildings earlier. I'm still not a big fan of using the slider for esp.

[Garth Vader]

Exactly, who waits to be modern. I do most of my conquest during the cats, tribs, cannon opportunities. I play standard sized maps with 6 or 7 AI, so the game is over during the cannon conquests.

[rah]

That's about right for me too. Every now and then If I start in the middle I may turtle up a bit more than I should and wait for cannons to start. Those games don't always end well.

[Norselord]

I guess the only way to play this game is to be a warmonger.
Everyone goosestep and conform along with the warmongers.

Jeeeeeee-sus.

Why do you still play the frigging game if you do the same thing over and over and over again ad nauseum?

This thread is about what you like about espionage, NOT a better way of doing things. Everyone knows what is easy. This is about doing what is interesting.

[Ming]

I was just responding to comment about how most people like to play as the US...

And you obviously haven't read some of the other threads. Many of us are looking for new challenges and other interesting ways to play the game. That's one of the nice things about Civ IV, many different options, civs, strategies, settings, maps, scenarios... You can always find something new and different. So I totally disagree with your comment about doing the same thing over and over again. If that was the case, I would have stopped playing Civ IV a long time ago.

And as far as thread direction... threads have a life of their own and go where ever they do... While ESP is the main topic here, you can't really expect the thread to go exactly like you thought... so deal with it

[wodan11]

There's a term, called "thread hijacking".

Here's another one: "Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind."

[rah]

I guess the only way to play this game is to be a warmonger.
Everyone goosestep and conform along with the warmongers.

Jeeeeeee-sus.

Why do you still play the frigging game if you do the same thing over and over and over again ad nauseum?

This thread is about what you like about espionage, NOT a better way of doing things. Everyone knows what is easy. This is about doing what is interesting.

Hmm, I've posted that I've tried it and intend to try it again.
And I've posted that I should consider that aspect more than I do.
And I posted what I liked about it.

And yeah, mention cannons and my mind goes into conquer mode

[Norselord]

I was just responding to comment about how most people like to play as the US...

And you obviously haven't read some of the other threads. Many of us are looking for new challenges and other interesting ways to play the game. That's one of the nice things about Civ IV, many different options, civs, strategies, settings, maps, scenarios... You can always find something new and different. So I totally disagree with your comment about doing the same thing over and over again. If that was the case, I would have stopped playing Civ IV a long time ago.

And as far as thread direction... threads have a life of their own and go where ever they do... While ESP is the main topic here, you can't really expect the thread to go exactly like you thought... so deal with it

Point of clarification, when i said to play as the US, i did not mean the Civilization. I meant RL US, with its RL foreign policy.

[rah]

Ah, I also assumed you were talking about players in the US.
I stand corrected.

[wodan11]

Point of clarification, when i said to play as the US, i did not mean the Civilization. I meant RL US, with its RL foreign policy.

Some of us got it the first time.

Though, honestly, it's not that clear of an analogy. The real U.S. steamrolls (or tries to) on policy and strongarms diplomatically. We also do some "police actions" which amount to the same thing. There's no outright conquering as there is in the game.

I suppose the U.S. could be said to be well on its way to a culture victory, when we account for things like Hollywood and the way "western" culture has spread. On the other hand, it's hardly a smooth or universal acceptance.

[Ming]

Point of clarification, when i said to play as the US, i did not mean the Civilization. I meant RL US, with its RL foreign policy.

I understood what you were saying... many people just race through the tech tree, get to modern weapons, and then destroy everybody else.

Unfortunately, the US in real life is pretty bad when it comes to ESP... We have the technology, but have no clue how to use what we can get. Maybe the US could take some lessons from you on how to use ESP better

In my last game, I did use ESP more (but never touched my slider toward ESP) I tried keeping the other Civs pissed at each other, destroyed development of a few wonders so I could get them, I put some cities in revolt prior to attacks, and stole a few techs (but in most cases, techs I rarely research... but the only techs available). Not quite the ESP experience you have been discussing, but a step to actually using a part of the game I rarely use except for information.

[rah]

Yeah we conquer as much as we try to acquire vassals.