Noble to Prince - unbearable

[Ming]

I've seen them attack directly... even before marines and no berzerkers. And in MP......
But yeah, they usually give you a turn by landing first. More than enough time if you have a quick response force ready. And early in the game, they may even waste a few turns while taking the city walls down.

And what's even funnier, since they didn't update the ai when they made the change that colateral damage units couldn't kill units, is when the AI lands a stack of collateral damage units next to the city, but no other type of units. You just have to laugh.

[rah]

Yeah, the quick response group can stop, have a joint, get laid and still make it to the war on time.

[Theben]

"The war starts when we start it, gentlemen!"

[rah]

Yes, those three cats have reduced the city defenses, and then what. Oh look, the troops that will kill us are finally arriving.

[brandonjm8]

you guys are funny, i will agree on something, that you guys better not play me lol. seriously though, it isnt wasteful to have an awesome D, and those 180 riflemen have turned into my 213 infantry, i upgrade my defenders ASAP all of them. all my units are modern (whatever best tech i have at the time), i dont keep weak older units they all get upgraded. my strong D's in games is the biggest reason i dont get attacked much, the time it would take them to build a stack to actually do long lasting damage would take a lonnng time and be very noticeable in the power graphs, theyd have to send a stack of at least 100 units to even take one of my cities, in two turns any one of my cities can have 100 units defending it, no joke. as i said before come try to take one of my cities, a strong D is never wasteful cuz it serves many purposes. out of all of my units, only half is for D, my navy is around 100 units and siege is around 20 and when i get gunships in 4 turns that'll be 40 of those and i have 10 tanks with more coming and 40+ fighters/bombers playing my strategy, my army is well over 400+50workers, not too shabby for a builder like me. plus none of my units will be for waste especially once i start killing, overkill lol. why not? i laugh when i blow them to smitherines then send all extras to the next victim, wastefulness bahh, lol. only wasteful if you never use them

[Ming]

Again... you really need to be playing at a higher level from the sound of things...

Oh, and you are welcome to join our MP games on Friday and Saturday nights... We would then get to see who shouldn't be playing whom

[rah]

All I'm going to say is that every game I've ever won happened before I had 200 infantry/and supporting units so I'm still thinking overkill. Different strokes for different folks. And if I have infantry before my neighbor, I'd consider 30 or 40 infantry quite an offensive stack.

[brandonjm8]

All I'm going to say is that every game I've ever won happened before I had 200 infantry/and supporting units so I'm still thinking overkill. Different strokes for different folks. And if I have infantry before my neighbor, I'd consider 30 or 40 infantry quite an offensive stack.

i agree, for the most part much of my infantry had CG promos but i didnt have that advantage for long. i could kill the weaker civs but i vassalized two of them so no need. the only reason im going after 2nd is cuz my subcontinent is right below his land, thats my only vulnerability as of now. true enough tho i couldve won a long time ago had i vassalized the other two lower powers but was hoping to have a challenge with 2nd this game. it seems i choose the wrong path for a quick victory but oh well, this will be my highest score yet.

[Baldyr]

Having units that never get used, like defensive units only to deter the enemy from attacking, is wasteful. Every single one cost 1 gold per turn in upkeep (minus the free ones). So, 100 excess defensive units (units with CG promotion or otherwise not very useful on the offense) for 100 turns will cost you 10000 gold! Surely there must be better uses for all that gold!

Since I don't like wasting my resources I try to have as versatile an army as possible. Sure, my own 100 excess units will cost me just as much, but I can use them for counter attacking and going on the offense. (This in turn will lower my upkeep...)

This is also why I try not to promote units until they are actually used, unless they risk being attacked of course. Especially siege units since they will ever only be used to attack, and in the case they defend they can't use promotions like Barrage or City Raider.

My best defensive strategy would be having siege units on my borders. Mounted units are also essential, for going after weakened units and units that are trying to bypass me. On the offense these offensive border guards can also double as reinforcements or as a strategic reserve when I go over the top and invade with my SoD(s).

[brandonjm8]

Again... you really need to be playing at a higher level from the sound of things...

Oh, and you are welcome to join our MP games on Friday and Saturday nights... We would then get to see who shouldn't be playing whom

i would consider it but the rules you guys play more than likely differ greatly to mine. i wont play pangea maps, nothing smaller than huge either, ive yet to play the new "spy system" so i would need to get familiar with that first if it were turned on, maybe in time when i familiarize myself with every option within the game. im not chickening out but if we were to play my settings, i can guarantee id be a great challenge for anyone, til then goodluck all.

[brandonjm8]

Having units that never get used, like defensive units only to deter the enemy from attacking, is wasteful. Every single one cost 1 gold per turn in upkeep (minus the free ones). So, 100 excess defensive units (units with CG promotion or otherwise not very useful on the offense) for 100 turns will cost you 10000 gold! Surely there must be better uses for all that gold!

Since I don't like wasting my resources I try to have as versatile an army as possible. Sure, my own 100 excess units will cost me just as much, but I can use them for counter attacking and going on the offense. (This in turn will lower my upkeep...)

This is also why I try not to promote units until they are actually used, unless they risk being attacked of course. Especially siege units since they will ever only be used to attack, and in the case they defend they can't use promotions like Barrage or City Raider.

My best defensive strategy would be having siege units on my borders. Mounted units are also essential, for going after weakened units and units that are trying to bypass me. On the offense these offensive border guards can also double as reinforcements or as a strategic reserve when I go over the top and invade with my SoD(s).

you guys underestimate the uses of having defensive units and alot of them, for one with enough you dont need a offensive SoD protecting them, instead of defending you could send that SoD somewhere for capturing, its wasteful to defend with your offense when you could easily use defensive units and keep your offensive ones for conquering. another use is with your "wasteful" defensive units as you guys call them you could send some with your SoD for defending newly captured cities, it also helps with happiness while providing optimum defense. it will deter alot of attacks so you can go at your own pace for whatever it is your trying to do, there are alot of other benefits, the biggest of all is the options you have having them. i agree with offensive SoD but they should be used for capturing not defending, the only time you can say they are defending is when you get invaded, if that happens keep some offensive units and with your overwhelming D they will lose while wasting all that time building them, yeah that may open up their economy but seriously reduces their power since they lost all those units in a lost cause. keep an open mind and consider all the possibilities and keep your options open, the best combo of both O and D will differ on playing styles, the key to constant victory is knowing ones right combo.

[Baldyr]

What I meant by having offensive units for defense, is that a border city of mine might have 1 Longbowman, 1 Musketman, 1 Pikeman, 1 Crossbowman, 1 Horse Archer, 2 Knight, 3 Cannon - or something like that. All in all about 10 units, typically.

On the other hand, the next city behind this border city might just have 1 Archer, Longbowman or Musketman (they all really do the same job policing my city) and perhaps some mounted units if needed under Hereditary Rule.

My offensive stack, on the other hand, will be nearby. That's another story altogether and it will mostly only need to move onto the border area if there is a real threat (like a huge SoD) for my border cities, or when it's time to go on the offensive.

It will get a few turns for my SoD to get to the border though, so I'm relying on my border guards to hold off any enemy. The most important part of which would be using my siege units to weaken the enemy stack.

In most cases the border guards will stay in place even when the front-lines have moved beyond the border city. They will however move to the next city once I've captured one, leaving maybe a couple of defenders in case something unexpected would happen. They are also useful for reinforcing my SoD if it doesn't fare as good, and they I'll be reinforcing the city with new recruits instead.

So, I'd go for a more mixed and more flexible defense any day.

[Ming]

i agree with offensive SoD but they should be used for capturing not defending,

The best defense is a good offense

If you are "defending" your territory, an offensive SOD works even better since when you are defending, you are still taking taking out units. Again, if you let stacks next to your city, you are probably doing something wrong. A few defensive type units mixed into your SOD's is really all you need to counter attacks on the stack. Otherwise, having a ton of defensive units is really kind of a waste.

[Baldyr]

Again, if you let stacks next to your city, you are probably doing something wrong.

Well, I tend to regard those culturally challenged border regions sort of a no mans land anyway. I will improve and work them (chop any Forests, though), but if the enemy invades I'll let him reach my city gates. Once there I'll cause collateral damage on his stack, and given reasonable combat odds, I'll counter-attack with offensive units in order to further weaken it (preferably with mounted units to outflank the siege units, Flanking promotion is good for suicide missions). Otherwise I'll just wait until they have weakened themselves against my defenses before counter-attacking. If it's a real SoD my own SoD would arrive any turn now to even out the odds...

The goal would be to not let any damaged enemy units retreat into friendly territory...

[Ming]

As long as you don't give them a chance to use their CD units, it's ok. Sure, they will pillage as they come, but unless they are taking out a town, any other improvement can be repaired later with only very short term losses.

I still much prefer to take them out before they even get next to the city. Most of their city raider units are pretty worthless in the field... and I love to take out their CD units before they ever get a chance to use them.