Why forts rule!

[ColdWizard]

I really miss being able to block choke points and thus expand at my leisure.

[rah]

Yes, ZOC is one of the only things I really miss in IV
I hope they reconsider it for V

Of course if they do add it back they need to eliminate the cheats for it. Like using a spy or other non combat units to get around it.

[wodan11]

You can still block choke points, but you have to use a settler to do it and whip a obelisk/monument if needed. (And pay the higher distance maintenance.)

[Felch]

Removing ZOC was a definite game changer. One of the few things about IV I'm not too keen on.

Mountain passes do compensate a bit, but they're few and far between.

[sirboxalot]

Don't want someone getting in your ZOC? Don't open borders!

and yeah this doesn't apply to units in free land but cultural borders is in a similar vein at least..

[Blaupanzer]

Permeable ZOCs work in wargames with reasonably intelligent AI. ZOC can either stop an enemy unit in its tracks, attack or retreat to a non-ZOC tile OR a permeable ZOC where the ensnared unit can move one tile within the ZOC and work through it. Humans can build the defense in depth to accomodate the latter but programming the AI for the former is damn near impossible because of the repeating options.

I would favor permeable ZOC for forts, cities, and other occupied defensive buildings, but would oppose it for units and such in the open. Attaching the forced "attack or retreat" zones to all military units is useless in a game like ours with no fixed goals. As I stated, the AI can be taught to fight through to point X, but not pick an X, fight or retreat, repeat until the AI units going back and forth become obsolete. That way lies anothe Civ III-like snare -- too much detail. Note that in history ZOC-like situations emerged only in the US Civil War era and weren't universal until essentially WW I. So we don't HAVE to have them.

[rah]

Well, since most units only move 1 space anyway, allowing ensnared units to move one tile within th ZOC is really no different. I'd prefer an attack, retreat, or move through (with considerable damage depending on number of units causing the ZOC)
This would make a line of spaced forts mean something. It would simulate crossing fields of fire. And it would make breaking through a line of fixed defenses more important.

I know civ isn't really a war game but I'd like to see this incorporated.

[Dinner]

Zone of control was wide open for abuse and I'm glad it is gone.

[rah]

It was only open to abuse because of the exceptions.

[wodan11]

Well, since most units only move 1 space anyway, allowing ensnared units to move one tile within the ZOC is really no different.

While few people really use it to its full potential, it would be nice to have a counter for Commando.

[Theben]

pillage your roads?

[Theben]

However... forts for quick oil or canals or choke points

In my current MP game I built a few forts to make a north-south network of canals across my continent... once a found oil I discovered some right underneath one of my forts

[rah]

The only thing sweeter than finish researching a tech that provides a resource and have it appear and be instantly available is getting that random resource to appear and be worked when you didn't already have it. I remember one game where I was attacking my "best bud" neighbor to acquire iron and just as I took his cap, Iron appeared in my cap's fat cross. Opps, my bad. Sorry about your cap

[Ming]

Yeah... nothing better than getting iron on a random mine when you don't already have it in your empire. Gold is a nice one to get as well, especially when it turns up in the BFC of your money city.

[Hauptman]

And again...

Not a choke point, not even in the way on the way to a city, just sittin there mindin my own buisness.