Trebs and Cats

[OzzyKP]

[azzaman333]

Doesn't make much difference. They'll all die anyway.

[OzzyKP]

You're such a downer.

[rah]

Except... that's a problem only to people who send their cannons out in penny packets.

In other words, that's a problem, how? 20 cannons is 20 cannons. 12% means I only need 8 (instead of 6) to reduce to 0% which means I "only" have 12 (instead of 14) to do collateral.

Spoken like a true fellow warmonger

But like Ming says, steel means ass-kicking time and if I only have 600 gold or so lying around that first stack will only have around 8 cannons, since I want to leverage the tech advantage as long as possible. The war usually starts a few turns after. One turn to upgrade and a turn or two to get them to the jumping off spot.

[slnz]

(If that was in return of my post)

Walls reduce bombard damage by 50%. Castles reduce bombard damage by an additive 25%, making the total -75%. Against Castles Trebs only do 16*0.25 = 4 bombard damage each. Requiring 20 bombards for 100%->0% while you only need 9 Cannon bombards to do the same.

Gunpowder-based siege, namely Cannons, Artillery, Mobile Artillery and all bombard-able ships and airplanes ignore this and always do their full listed bombard damage.

[Blaupanzer]

All true, slnz. But the bottom line really is that, in the time of Steel, cannons usually survive to heal and come back again. In the time before, cats die on the attack, and so do trebs if not preceded by cats. As of cannons the only city defense that counts is cultural, and those cannons are fully effective against that. Not so with the trebs, so convert them or watch excessively small effects accumulate against the opponents' defenses.

[rah]

Yeah, the key is their survival rate against those longbowmen. Instead of losing your one to three trebs a city, now you lose a single cannon every now and then. And most of my offensives usually bog down due to seige attrition. Once Cannons are avail, (at least until the AI gets rifles or highly promoted grens) the attrition rate drops to almost 0, so the good times just keep rolling.

[wodan11]

Yeah, the key is their survival rate against those longbowmen. Instead of losing your one to three trebs a city, now you lose a single cannon every now and then. And most of my offensives usually bog down due to seige attrition. Once Cannons are avail, (at least until the AI gets rifles or highly promoted grens) the attrition rate drops to almost 0, so the good times just keep rolling.

Yeah but a lot of that is because your cannons are all CRIII.

[rah]

YEP, trebs that survived to be upgraded.

[Boracks]

So use trebs, as many as you can (see my sig line ), get them promoted in anticipation of cannon.

Treat cats as one use ammo, expending a couple in front of the trebs if you have them.

And when you're about to get steel, have the trebs in position so you can upgrade and go.

[Krill]

*cough* Sometimes researching to trebs is a waste.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5547684&postcount=30

[OzzyKP]

(If that was in return of my post)

Walls reduce bombard damage by 50%. Castles reduce bombard damage by an additive 25%, making the total -75%. Against Castles Trebs only do 16*0.25 = 4 bombard damage each. Requiring 20 bombards for 100%->0% while you only need 9 Cannon bombards to do the same.

Gunpowder-based siege, namely Cannons, Artillery, Mobile Artillery and all bombard-able ships and airplanes ignore this and always do their full listed bombard damage.

Then you assume every city you siege has castles. Which is rarely the case.

[slnz]

Then you assume every city you siege has castles. Which is rarely the case.

At least for me ~90% of the post-Engineering (~300AD+) cities I siege have Castles. Certainly 95+% at Steel. The AI loves Castles. Anyway non-Castle cities aren't that relevant since they usually have only 40-60% and are not near the border (= the enemy is on the ropes already).

True though that if you'd find someone with nearly no castles then it could be worth it to keep a few Trebs, though an argument could be made for getting Accuracy Cannons instead which are much better on the attack.

[rah]

Yes, the AI seems to love Castles and the cities that don't have them, the walls are usually falling in a single turn anyway. Once you have steel, the only purpose for trebs is waiting for the extra cash to upgrade them and if you're not doing that, you're just wasting the unit maint cost for them.

[Blaupanzer]

Yes, the AI seems to love Castles and the cities that don't have them, the walls are usually falling in a single turn anyway. Once you have steel, the only purpose for trebs is waiting for the extra cash to upgrade them and if you're not doing that, you're just wasting the unit maint cost for them.

QED