What is the best civ/leader combo for MP?

[Dinner]

In MP tech trading is almost always turned off and combat with other human players is surely not far off. Thus you need good civ traits and hopefully a UU and unique building which doesn't come to late in the game. I've been told that the financial trait is best in the latest BTS patches due to the major financial bonuses you get with cottage spam so I'm leaning towards a financial leader as being the most desirable for MP play. The question is which of these civs is the right call?

Here's a list of civs with the financial trait.

1. Carthage
2. Dutch
3. England (Liz)
4. Inca
5. Korea
6. Malinese
7. Maya
8. Persia (Darius)
9. Scandinavia

Obviously the second trait as well as the UU and unique building all come into consideration. Which of these civs is the best for MP? Of course some people might not think the financial trait is the hands down best so if this is true please tell us which trait combo/Civ/leader is best. Of course, if someone plays unrestricted leaders then they could match any leader up with and civ... And this could mean a whole new combo.

[Ming]

The people I play with usually play random civs (not unrestricted leaders) so you get used to playing all kinds of civs and have to adapt your regular strategy to fit the situation. Some leaders and civs are better than others. One of the most interesting times in our games is waiting for the game to load and seeing what leader/civ you got.

While some may argue on whether financial is the best trait, I certainly don't mind most of the leaders that have that trait. But it's really the total package (second trait, starting sciences, UU, and UB) that makes a difference to me, not just a single trait.

I'm a big fan of "creative" in MP games. While not as important to me in SP games, it really helps me in MP games. I don't have to waste time early in the game with culture and I can do more other things early and hopefully put myself in a stronger position. When I get the Dutch, I'm usually thrilled. However, since we mostly play on large land masses, it's UU kind of sucks, and it's UB doesn't come into play until very late. And if you are a religious freak, you really don't have a chance for the two opening religions. Plus, if you don't start on the sea, fishing can be a wasted opening tech.

Huayna Capac is another one I just LOVE to see at the start. He's a great one if your strategy involves a key wonder or two early in the game. The UU also gives you the option for an early rush. and isn't bad for pinching a close neighbor. However, it's a short lived UU. His UB is also a very useful one, almost making you kind of like creative, so overall, the Incans and one of my favorites.

Mansa Musa can be a fun one as well. Spiritual can be useful as long as you use it. His UU can be used for an early rush or pinch strategy, and is solid for early defense. The UB can also be nice for helping the economy. The combination of mining and wheel makes for "hopefully" early access to key resources. However, not the food resources I don't mind playing the Mali.

Darius is a fun one too. It's solid UU can lead to some early rushes and is great in the early game. Being both organized and financial makes the economic part of the game much easier to deal with. The UB is ok and at least comes into play. And you get a scout to start the game.

I could go on and on... but I do notice that at looking at the list of financial leaders, none of them really bother me when I get them in MP games, so I guess the financial trait is one of the better ones in an MP game

[Dinner]

Ideally, I'd be playing unrestricted leaders and I'd have a financial civ leader combined with a civ which has a UU and a unique building which happens fairly early in the game since MP games are almost always decided fairly early on. Exactly which leader and which civ meets the criteria I don't know but I'm hoping to learn for the poly store of civ knowledge.

I'm thinking a civ with a UU which is pre-gunpowder would be best for MP which means the unique building would also be something which gives you a nice bonus before the game gets to far along. Again I'm not sure and am hoping others will make imputs but in my mind the best leaders are:

Pascal - Finacial, Expansive
Hyna Copac – Fin, Ind
Darius – Fin, Org
Ragnar – Fin, Aggressive

With the best civ to match them up with still up in the air. Again it would be a civ with an relatively early UU and unique building as MP games are decided fairly early.

[Dinner]

I'm kind of leading towards the expansive trait being the best as it give a +3 to health and that can be hard to come buy until late in the game so probably Pascal is the best though the others, especially Ragnar, could be great in the right situation. On a large map Fin, Org is a major bonus since it reduces civic and maintenance costs so Darius would be good. On a small map Ragnar's aggressive trait with its extra unit upgrades would be key while on Hayna Copac's Fin, Ind would also be good for a compact civ seeking to maxize hammer output on a medium map.

So on a big map with spread out cities I'd go Darius, on a small map where we can expect lots of fighting I'd go Ragnar, Hydna Copac on a medium map (hopefully with lots of hills), while Pascal would probably be best in most situations.

To compare I think the best MP civs have a UU and a UB you can use early. Here's a list of the best in my mind:

Aztecs – Swordsman, courthouse
Inca – warrior, grainery
Mali – Archer, Forge
Native American – Axemen, monument
Rome – Swordsman, market
Sumarian – Axeman, courthouse
Zulu – spearmen, barracks

[Blaupanzer]

With a 'pick your own leader' situation, I would think Boudica of the Romans would be the very best. I don't play MP, but SP games generally have early happiness problems but not health (because the happiness caps are lower). Thus Charismatic is of high early value and the more rapid combat promotions don't hurt either. Aggressive puts an extra promotion on their very dangerous UU. That Roman's maceman-strength swordsman, plus the semi-philosophical UB effect should make them a dangerous civ in the right hands. Economy management without assistance of the leader trait reqires discipline, but a review of Wodan11's input on this (build cottages, and when available, build seige equipment is a poor and over simplified summary) reveals a disciplined, systematic approach to economy and conquering).

[rah]

The NAs are probably the best for an EARLY rush. You don't even have to connect your copper. That and combined with the early UB for promoting your archers it's good for one sitting MP games. It not only helps with regular archers but Crossbows and longbows will also be FINE. A stack of promoted archers along with dog soldiers is pretty damn hard to stop early.

[Ming]

As far as UU's go, it all depends on "when" you plan on using them. If you plan on a real early rush, the Native American's can be a real killer. Dog Soldiers can be built once you get Bronze, with no copper needed. Even though they are only 4, their 100% bonus vs melee units make them pretty unstopable if you move real quick. Just don't pick on a neighbor that has already hooked up horses. You only need a few to ravage an opponent if you build them quick enough. Plus, the three extra experience points for archers from the Totem Pole can help you build solid units to go with the dog soldiers as the battle continues. However, if you don't plan on early rush, don't bother with NA's.

You ignored the Egyptians... their war chariots at 5 strength make them excellent weapons for an early rush. Their two movement allows for a quick strike, and makes it easier to pillage key resourses like copper. If you do it quickly, even if the person has built a spearman or two, they won't be building anymore of them. Their UB allows an early and cheap way to get some get priests specialists, but there are better UB's.

And the Romans are killer for their UU. Prats have a long shelf life, and it's the fastest 8 unit available.

[Blaupanzer]

The other swordsan UUs are not all that valuable. Woodsman I does not make up for -1 strength for the Aztecs, although the unit can be very fast in certain environments with 1 promotion. The Aztecs have one of the best early game UBs with that shortened popular response to whipping.

Boudica (and Brennus) have an early unit and building. The Celt's Guerilla I and use of copper OR iron is interestingfor their swordsman, but you don't get a Aztec-like fast unit in certain terrains, because Guerilla II is not available to melee units. The walls that promote archers is weird.

The Maya have a resourceless spearman of considerable value if the metals tend to be a stretch. The 3-happy coliseum (Ballcourt) can have value too.

[Blaupanzer]

If you play it straight in a crowded world, the Egyptians, especially Hatshepsut, would be dangerous with an early and ripsnorting UU and a UB which enhances her Creative trait. Both UU and UB are very early, but she depends on early horses and at least 1 reachable neighbor. Hills are not her friends.

[Ming]

And don't forget about the Sumarians. The "Vulture" is a killer early unit. A six strength unit that has it's melee unit advantage (unlike swordsman) Sure, they don't get the 10% city attack bonus that Swordsman get, but you can get Bronze work sooooooooooo early. And the Ziggurat that replaces court houses can be built when you get priesthood... making early expansion much easier.

[rah]

I remember joining an MP game in progress and chose the Sumarians figuring it was one of the best civs available only to find that all it had bothered to build was workers, settlers and vultures and I was hemorrhaging money. Not a single Zig so with 6 cities the science % was down to 10% so it generating only about 13 beakers a turn. All the build queues were more Vultures. Now people might assume that they were building for a dow, but there was already sufficient troops for that but most would have been disbanded as soon as they left their culture borders. (this was at noble so the AI support costs were not that much less then a human's)

[Dinner]

That's strange but if it is a small map he could be betting the house on a massive push accross the map for a domination victory.

[Blaupanzer]

The AI does seem to get caught sometimes in a kind of "do-loop." All production is for 1 type of unit, nothing else; make every land plot a cottage, resources or not; research very expensive techs at very low rates. This stops at some point due, I suspect, to check routines but I have seen Chinese with 54 crossbows and only a dozen other units total, or the Egyptians with a dozen chariots and no real defensive units. A UU is a good thing by the game's definition. However, balance has value too.

[Garth Vader]

Boudica (and Brennus) have an early unit and building. The Celt's Guerilla I and use of copper OR iron is interestingfor their swordsman, but you don't get a Aztec-like fast unit in certain terrains, because Guerilla II is not available to melee units. The walls that promote archers is weird.

The Maya have a resourceless spearman of considerable value if the metals tend to be a stretch. The 3-happy coliseum (Ballcourt) can have value too.

Every time I have played the Celts I have been able to promote my Gallic's to Guerrilla 2 and 3.

[rah]

That's strange but if it is a small map he could be betting the house on a massive push accross the map for a domination victory.

It was a standard sized map.

I did the only thing that made sense. Switched all the build queues to zigs. And rallied my forces to the border and timed leaving as zigs came on line so I could support them leaving my culture. I thought it was best to throw them at someone since I couldn't afford to keep all of them at that point. Since the beakers was so low there was no way I could wait for construction for the cats. So culture defenses on my victim were high with no way to bring them down. The loss ratio was so high I was only able to take two cities before I lost enough that my economic recovery could start. Stupid AI.