Looking to play at Emporor Level

[reynoldsmj]

I have been a Civ player for years and always enjoyed the game. I usually play at one or two levels harder than even (prince & monarch in CIV4) and find the games challenging early and then, assuming I survive, once the games reach the modern era (tanks, mech infantry), the game is pretty much over and it becomes just a matter of destroying everyone else. I decided to bump up to emporor and I am looking for some help from people playing at this level. The technology disadvantage is so huge at this level, I am having a hard time finding a strategy to work. I thought, since I was so much weaker than the rest I would avoid war until I built myself up. What I found was by the time I had built myself up and amassed 10-12 legions(Roman swordsman) the AI players had knights and some even early gunpowder units. What are some ways people have been successful at this level.
Thanks for any help!

[Theben]

Play a Philosophical civ, build Pyramids and libraries in all your cities, make sure you have enough food to support 2 scientists in each city. Switch to Representation. If you get religions, spread them to your cities and build monasteries. Use Great Scientists to bulb techs and build academies in high science cities... later settle them in a city. If you get Caste System and have a lot of food, you can field a lot of scientists (in 1 game my capital has 106 /turn at 50% rate). In high production cities you can build 'research' with Alphabet.

You'll blow away the AI with tech in no time. Just remember to have 1-2 cities building units.

[Theben]

Alexander is a good one b/c with Aggressive you can early rush nearby neighbors with cover phalanxes, and then settle down w/ the Pyramids and tech away with lots of cities.

[trev]

Generally a few more cities are needed early than can be founded with settlers as AI's will take the better locations, so an early war is needed to expand your cities and weaken a neighbour. So build 3 or 4 cities, get workers to irrigate/farm resource squares, and mine some hills for hammers, produce enough armies to quickly take about 4 cities (a stack of about 12 units will do this easy with several reinforcements as you advance. Once this is done tech to courthouses/marketplaces and get cottages etc going so your tech rate can be within reach of the AI. Periodically as your weaponry advances repeat conquest against different AI's as you will need your total city count to exceed most AI's to keep up in tech. I have found knights/currassiers/cavalry with flanking 2 are great for the invasions as they will retreat rather than die often against AI defenders, less reinforcements needed to keep wars going. Just protect them with a few pikemen, musketman, riflemen etc as appropiate.

[Hauptman]

Be aggressive. Plan everything ahead of time. Tech deep and trade. Build just enough units to win wars, but no more than that, this requires a learning curve. And of course, most importantly, have an income be it from religions or great merchants.

Specialize cities. Know what each city will be when u plant/capture it.

Capital usually science for me. All scientists, engineers, spies get planted. Gets the Oxford University. Other is game dependant. Cottages, food and hammers are all equally important.

Food city, (often my capital) gets national epic and cranks cranks cranks great people.

Code of laws gives Confuicionism. You did get CoL with the oracle didnt you? Oracle creats priests. Use them. Plant all Priests, merchants, artists in Conf holy city. Build markets banks and grocers first. Gets Wall Street. Can rely on priests later for production, so lots of cottages.

High production city, a captured capital, or a lucky plant. Preferably coastal. Gets ZERO trade tile upgrades. Pruduction and growth only. Builds units and buildings that improve those units. Plant generals here. Gets heroic epic etc.

High production river adjacent city. usually a captured capital. Focuses on production and growth, trade from waterwheels and windmills late game, but nil prior. gets Ironworks, factory, powerplant, everything. Can do anything fast. Build swarms of units, wonders (make sure its on a river to build the Three Gorges)

Every other city. balance between commerce and production. Production wins games, commerce makes it easier.




(edit: 1 more peice of advice. Dont play a game with no precious metals in caps big fat cross until you can handle the level better. 1 gold square will double your early research rate. 2 and you'll think yer playing on Monarch)

[Hauptman]

As for a first civ choice, Elizebeth of england is spot on. Financial, you need all the help you can get. Philo, it takes wise and liberal use of great people to out tech the AI's. And her UU comes right when things get difficult.

It's usually just about the gunpowder age, when the factions are set (vassels had been made), that you experience your first real dogpiles. My first few emp games were "won" or lost dependant on how I transitioned to gunpowder. Took 3 games to figure it out, and when i did I posted it as an AAR here (if anyone remebers my spanish AAR)

[Ming]

Financial is indeed a good trait to have at the higher levels. While Philo has it's advantages, I kind of like creative (can get right into building stuff without having to worry about getting some culture) or Industrius to help with the early wonders. Granted, long term, Philo can be more useful (assuming you use it aggressively), but I think you need to get off to a quick and efficient start to win at the higher levels. Being able to pick up some of the key early wonders can make a big difference.

[reynoldsmj]

Hauptman: The scenario you describe around gunpowder is when everyhting falls apart for me. Just before that , half the civ's were slightly more advanced and half were slightly less. Then all of a sudden they were all 6 or 7 ahead of me and where I was able to repulse earlier attacks, the tech differences on units really started to add up. Charlamagne showed up with 10 tanks, 10 infantry, 10 sams, 5 cannon, 8 cavalry and a few other units. I had about 6 rifleman and 6 cuirassiers and got smoked. Can you point me to : "Took 3 games to figure it out, and when i did I posted it as an AAR here (if anyone remebers my spanish AAR)"

Thanks for any help

[Hauptman]

It's all about the prep before hand. Making sure you DON'T leave yourself open to falling behind and getting dogpiled.

Numero uno. Have a very defensible homeland. That means expand to bottlenecks, build forts, have an army. When you have macemen you MUST use them to expand and vassalize. Have your borders secured with defensive possitions and vassals before the gunpowder age.

Secondly, get military techs FIRST. The ai's have thier own agendas, and often don't beeline the important military techs. I can regularly guarantee I will be creating the first macemen, riflemen, and infantry in all of my emporer games. If you are not, you will fail.

Ancient warfare is rare for me, it's too slow and without an economy it does more harm then good to expand that early. Medivel warfare on the otherhand... Thats when I get aggressive. Looking towards the future. It's still a slow process so I cant expand too far but It's enough to better my positioning and weaken my rivals.

Once you have rifles and cannons, devote yourself to total war. Do not even need the cannons if you got rifles early enough. Grab as much good land as possible before grenadiers make an appearance... but even then after rifles I beeline towards infantry, wich has railroad enroute. Machine guns make grenadiers worthless. So I basicaly push forward until the continent is mine. Or if it's a rather large one... Mostly mine.

The point is have a more advanced military, even if that means your people cannot read. Bypass wonders, and "luxury" techs for power. It's the only way to maintain an edge against the dirty rotten cheating bastard AI at that level.

[Hauptman]

Hauptman: The scenario you describe around gunpowder is when everyhting falls apart for me. Just before that , half the civ's were slightly more advanced and half were slightly less. Then all of a sudden they were all 6 or 7 ahead of me and where I was able to repulse earlier attacks, the tech differences on units really started to add up. Charlamagne showed up with 10 tanks, 10 infantry, 10 sams, 5 cannon, 8 cavalry and a few other units. I had about 6 rifleman and 6 cuirassiers and got smoked. Can you point me to : "Took 3 games to figure it out, and when i did I posted it as an AAR here (if anyone remebers my spanish AAR)"

Thanks for any help

The AAR might still be around, but the screenshots are long gone, and it was screenshot driven for the details. I'll see if i can dig it up....


http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174340

http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177464

[sorinache]

Just for balance ...

This is a sure sign Civ IV is a great game : I am here to say, as Larry Wall did before me, "There's more than one way to do it". If you like war (in general, and war in Civ in particular), then by all means follow Hauptman's recommendation. But if you thought the battles in good old Master of Orion II and Master of Magic were the real thing while war in Civ was always plain uninteresting, then the good news is : YOU DON'T HAVE TO do like that. You don't need to research military techs first. You don't need to be the first to macemen (although I do prefer to be the first to riflemen and infantry). You don't NEED to expand and vassalize anyone if you can't be bothered. You don't need to have a very defensible homeland (heck, I won on Emperor with my cities intermingled with Hannibal's !). You basically do not NEED to wage war (at least most of the time) in order to win on Emperor. I've already won on Emperor without firing a single shot during the whole game (well, except against animals and barbs early on). I loved it, I was able to concentrate on my cities and techs. If you prefer to play "Sim Empire" as some call it, if you like the builder streak, then do not despair, for you can still easily win on Emperor.

Now even when you avoid warmongering there might be several strategies available. Mine is centered around founding as many religions as possible, building Oracle (using it to get Theology rather than anything else), using the GP that results to build a Great Shrine (depending on what state religion you chose) - repeat the GP -> Great Shrine routine later if necesssary. The income stream from the Great Shrine(s) bankrolls your empire. If you can and want to expand, do it. I find it hard to choose to build a settler over building a building (I love libraries, monasteries, forges, temples, universities, there's always an useful building to be built). But if you DON'T expand, you can still win - you can win a space race even if you stay at, say, 3 cities till around 500 AD, at 5 cities till 1500 AD and even if you never go above 8 cities. Expanding is facultative.

In order to avoid war (I hate being interrupted by the need to build military units), you need to avoid being the meekest civ (last in the power graph). As a rule of thumb, you should be slightly ahead in tech - if your military is roughly up-to-date then having about 3 units for every city is more or less what you'll need to stay in the middle of the pack, military-wise.

It's all about the prep before hand. Making sure you DON'T leave yourself open to falling behind and getting dogpiled.

Numero uno. Have a very defensible homeland. That means expand to bottlenecks, build forts, have an army. When you have macemen you MUST use them to expand and vassalize. Have your borders secured with defensive possitions and vassals before the gunpowder age.

Secondly, get military techs FIRST. The ai's have thier own agendas, and often don't beeline the important military techs. I can regularly guarantee I will be creating the first macemen, riflemen, and infantry in all of my emporer games. If you are not, you will fail.

Ancient warfare is rare for me, it's too slow and without an economy it does more harm then good to expand that early. Medivel warfare on the otherhand... Thats when I get aggressive. Looking towards the future. It's still a slow process so I cant expand too far but It's enough to better my positioning and weaken my rivals.

Once you have rifles and cannons, devote yourself to total war. Do not even need the cannons if you got rifles early enough. Grab as much good land as possible before grenadiers make an appearance... but even then after rifles I beeline towards infantry, wich has railroad enroute. Machine guns make grenadiers worthless. So I basicaly push forward until the continent is mine. Or if it's a rather large one... Mostly mine.

The point is have a more advanced military, even if that means your people cannot read. Bypass wonders, and "luxury" techs for power. It's the only way to maintain an edge against the dirty rotten cheating bastard AI at that level.

[sorinache]

Financial is indeed a good trait to have at the higher levels. While Philo has it's advantages, I kind of like creative (can get right into building stuff without having to worry about getting some culture) or Industrius to help with the early wonders. Granted, long term, Philo can be more useful (assuming you use it aggressively), but I think you need to get off to a quick and efficient start to win at the higher levels. Being able to pick up some of the key early wonders can make a big difference.

I must speak in favor of Organized leaders. It seems they are under-rated here. I am a big fan of Organized. It's a bit like having courthouses in all your cities, expansion is much, much cheaper. Besides, you get a bonus when building some of the most useful buildings : Courthouses (again) and factories (here the bonus is really sizeable).

Probably the easier leader to play is Darius of the Persians : Financial, Organized, but Elizabeth can claim the title as well because Philo is indeed a very good trait.

[Hauptman]

**cough**

3 units per city???

We must play a different game entirely...

I guess i should mention i play marathon (because i wanna savor them nice long games) on huge maps. Aggresive AI all the time every time. 3 units per city = dead duck. Yeh I've had nay a shot fired games, but that was OCC, different rules there. With my normal settings my best friends will send 100 unit stacks at me if I'm not careful. And no, it's not the agg ai that does that, It happened every time without that checked. I check it to give the sniveling ai a fighting chance against me.

But yeh, I'm a warmonger and proud of it. Veni, vidi, vici.

[sorinache]

**cough**

3 units per city???

We must play a different game entirely...

I guess i should mention i play marathon (because i wanna savor them nice long games) on huge maps.

Gee, it sounds so boring I could barely stand the thought of it ! ... I've tried marathon once it it moved sooooo slowly (from a builder pov, I mean) I almost fell asleep in front of the computer. And huge maps on top of that ! I'm currently playing the Earth map (which is huge by design) on Epic and I'm close to getting tendinitis from the number of mouse clicks I have to do ! And the micro-management needs are so big it almost feels like working !

I play Epic with standard or (seldom) large maps

Aggresive AI all the time every time. 3 units per city = dead duck. Yeh I've had nay a shot fired games, but that was OCC, different rules there. With my normal settings my best friends will send 100 unit stacks at me if I'm not careful. And no, it's not the agg ai that does that, It happened every time without that checked. I check it to give the sniveling ai a fighting chance against me.

But yeh, I'm a warmonger and proud of it. Veni, vidi, vici.

Well, that is a choice and the game is all the richer for it. I certainly try to avoid wars, hence no "aggressive AI" for me.

So Emperor, Epic, Standard, "normal AI" (not aggressive) - and then, with a little bit of diplomacy, 3 up-to-date units per city is about right to be one or two notches above last in power - which means the IA won't dogpile on you. Which is good if you like Sim Empire (my case)

[slnz]

So Emperor, Epic, Standard, "normal AI" (not aggressive) - and then, with a little bit of diplomacy, 3 up-to-date units per city is about right to be one or two notches above last in power - which means the IA won't dogpile on you. Which is good if you like Sim Empire (my case)

Power doesn't do basically anything against dogpiling. When assessing dogpile DoWs, the AI adds the power of his would-be war all(y/ies) to his own for the calculation, so you'd need well over double his power in the usual scenario.

Power is always a dangerous thing to rely on against getting DoWed, it has no effect until you rise above a certain threshold (leader dependant, usually something like 130% of their power). If you manage to rise above the threshold though, then that AI can't DoW you at all under normal circumstances, shenanigans like peacevassal->DoWs and AP DoWs pay no heed to this (or much else for that matter).

That said, 3 units per city sounds like an okayish baseline for standing armies (just don't keep them spread out by actually putting 3 units in each city ). Depends on the diplo situation, sometimes 1 unit per city is enough for the whole game and sometimes you need 50+ units just for a standing defense army.