The jump from Vanilla to BTS

[ybrevo]

Finally BTS came for Mac as well, and I managed to find the only copy in Denmark (there will be more of course, but after waiting soooo long...)

I have only played Vanilla so far, so I would appreciate a few hints of what is much different, and if there is a thread here already where I can read some good advise. Vassals, espionage, warlords and corporations are only a few new "details" I know nothing about.

I have read quite a bit here on Apolyton already, but since I never expected a Mac-version of BTS, I didn´t pay much attention. Foolish me!

And a side question: Is there a new patch out there for BTS I need to install, or is it included?

Thanks in advance ...

ybrevo

[rah]

Ah so many changes and it's been sooo long since I played vanilla.

Biggest change. Siege units can't kill units. But the AI doesn't know it.

[Blaupanzer]

In the first thread on this forum is a list of guides and other references. One is a pdf for Civ 4 BTS. Good place to start if you don't want to blunder blindly. Not specific to the Mac, but my other friends who have been seduced by Apple tell me that seldom matters.

[wodan11]

Biggest change. Siege units can't kill units.

---------------------------------^^^

On offense. On defense they still can. (i.e., when you attack them you can die.)

[rah]

Dats true, I hate losing macemen to cats. Or the worse, I lost an axeman to a scout once. Ouch.
It is hilarious when you're playing an island world and that fist civ sends it's fleet to take you down and unloads 9 cats and one swordman. Good luck with that.

[Blaupanzer]

Same sort of stacks in that attrition, attack-me-every-turn I noted elsewhere. At least one stack attacking every turn, 4 - 7 cats in every 10-unit stack, usually 7 or 6. You are waiting for him to get serious with ~15 defenders, and here comes a whole bunch of wood every turn. My initial response was: "Are you kidding me?" However, as rah noted, the AI doesn't seem to know those units cannot kill.

Another big change is the whole corporation thing. Haven't figured all that out myself, but if you get there in a game, give the forum a yell. Some folks here seem to know something about corps.

[rah]

Unfortunately by the time the corps are ready to cruise, so is my army and state property makes way too much sense. My games are usually over quite soon after that switch.

[ybrevo]

CIV-friends - thanks for your feedback so far

I will probably still have to learn the hard way for a while, but it is part of the fun, and on Noble I will succeed within 5-6 years or so

Still the question about the patch: I think I read about one 3.19 once? If I am right, is it relevant for the Mac-version?

ybrevo

[rah]

Since I don't have a mac, don't consider me the expert, but I thought I read somewhere that it was included. Check the version on yours and post it here for us to look at. (since it has possible implications for our MP games)

[wodan11]

This all brings back memories. Back in the day, a Mac was all I had. And Civ (2, I think, or was it 3?) was pretty much the only good game out for Macs. In fact, that's what got me into Civ. I was looking for something to screw around with while on work trips, airport/hotel or whatever.

[trev]

Unfortunately by the time the corps are ready to cruise, so is my army and state property makes way too much sense.

I have changed from that opinion. Several corporations are very useful, Sushi is very nice on archipalogo maps in particular, nothing like spreading the corp to a newly captured city and finding it gains 7 food per turn and 30 culture points, so even on marathon speed the culture expands immediately. Mining Inc also useful with the extra hammers it provides to get things built quickly, the 2 combined really makes your civ leap forward in a rush. No big financial benefit immediately, but with time and the much larger cities you can get with Sushi it well and truly pays dividends.

[ybrevo]

This all brings back memories. Back in the day, a Mac was all I had. And Civ (2, I think, or was it 3?) was pretty much the only good game out for Macs. In fact, that's what got me into Civ. I was looking for something to screw around with while on work trips, airport/hotel or whatever.

Wodan, I agree - CIV 2 was a gem on a Mac and stole most of my life and sleep back then. But there WAS other fantastic games (Myst, Links, F/A 18, Marathon, Football Manager, The 7th Guest, Chessmaster to name a few), and I am glad we didn´t have a lot of the crap, which went to the other platforms

Anyway, I will install BTS as soon as I have finished my present Vanilla game. It is my first game on marathon speed, and it has been extremely interesting, so I won´t just quit. When BTS is running, I will return and tell how it is doing on a Mac and if the newest patch is there.

Cheers!

ybrevo

[rah]

I have changed from that opinion. Several corporations are very useful, Sushi is very nice on archipalogo maps in particular, nothing like spreading the corp to a newly captured city and finding it gains 7 food per turn and 30 culture points, so even on marathon speed the culture expands immediately. Mining Inc also useful with the extra hammers it provides to get things built quickly, the 2 combined really makes your civ leap forward in a rush. No big financial benefit immediately, but with time and the much larger cities you can get with Sushi it well and truly pays dividends.

Yeah, I guess I should experiment a bit more with these, but if I feel the game is already in the bag, I just finish it out as quickly as possible. But my next game I'll give it a try. It's never a bad Idea to take advice from someone that has kicked your ass in quite a few games.

[Father Beast]

Something has changed in culture flipping cities in BtS. In Vanilla, a city would generally decided to join my empire when its population was somewhere around 50-60% my people. In BtS, I find there are cities which are reduced to one square (the city square) and have 80-90% my people in them, but they still won't flip.

[trev]

There can be 2 reasons for lack of culture flip, reason 1 is it was previously your city, a city will not flip after capture to its previous owner, reason 2 is that it has sufficient units in it to prevent a flip, each additional unit reduces the odds of a culture flip happening, around 15 - 20 units will usually prevent it permanently.