Culture: What do I do wrong?

[Wernazuma III]

In my game I'm neighboring the Indians. Relatively early in the game we established a border and I built two cities close to it, trying to compete culturewise, which didn't work out too well (screen 1).

Later I conquered three Greek cities which even after some time and investing in their culture didn't get many tiles around them (screen 2).

In Yeha and Sakae I even wasted a Great Artist, but nothing changed at all.

Now, stupid Inkans conquer an Indian city and after a few turns, they have the complete surroundings under control. Hovering my mouse around their tiles, it says "100% Indian, 0% Incan" (screen 3).

Why is this?

[wodan11]

In my game I'm neighboring the Indians. Relatively early in the game we established a border and I built two cities close to it, trying to compete culturewise, which didn't work out too well (screen 1).

Later I conquered three Greek cities which even after some time and investing in their culture didn't get many tiles around them (screen 2).

In Yeha and Sakae I even wasted a Great Artist, but nothing changed at all.

There's a difference betwen "bombing" (using your GA to build a great work) and setting the GA. The latter, in many cases, is superior (though it will take longer).

Each tile in the game has an inherent property/attributes which give numerical values of the culture that gone into the tile over the course of the game.

So, if a tile has 4000 culture pumped into it from the Indians, you can go to your city and have your GA bomb 3000 culture into it, and it won't do anything.

Settling, combined with cash buying (through Universal Suffrage) theatre etc. may in some cases be more effective.

Also, depending on what version of the game you're running, the AI will often run artist specialists if their city is culture threatened. Unless you're doing the same, you are at a disadvantage.

Now, stupid Inkans conquer an Indian city and after a few turns, they have the complete surroundings under control. Hovering my mouse around their tiles, it says "100% Indian, 0% Incan" (screen 3).

Why is this?

There are 2 things that can do this.

1) if the Incans are a vassal of the Indians

2) If the Incans have been eliminated from the game

[Jaybe]

Early in the life of Civ4 (like Vanilla and maybe Warlords) culture could be changed rapidly. Now, in its mature life (BtS at least), changing culture is both a matter of raw culture and the endurance of that culture on a tile.

It may take hundreds of turns (depending on your game speed) for your culture to overcome theirs. A Great Artist culture bomb may work, but unless the opposing city is new, don't expect it to work SOON. Patience may be rewarded, but it WILL be required.

[Blaupanzer]

Wodan read your question upside down, if you will. The Inkans get their full BFC because the Indians are their vassal.

People: The pictures in the OP are UPSIDE DOWN. The reference to screen 1 actually applies to screen three. When Wernazuma III referances the Inkans seemingly immediate accomplishment that is referenced in the message as the third screen it is really the first or top screen.

[OzzyKP]

Yea, I second what everyone else has said. Settling great artists is almost always more effective than doing the culture bomb. Only do the culture bomb if there is a lot of empty space around the city and you want to claim territory. If the city is in the middle of a culture war, definitely settle the artist.

The Indians are definitely vassals of the Inca, which means the master's fat cross tiles are always usable when they overlap with those of a vassal. A nice perk when vassalizing someone.

As for the second screen shot... it is always difficult to build culture in a conquered city. Their neighboring cities have had a very long time to build up culture and it is tough to come into the game late and have to start from scratch. I don't have many tips for overcoming this. Build lots of culture buildings of course. Usually the best way to get your conquered cities to their full potential is to keep conquering all the other cities nearby.

[wodan11]

Usually the best way to get your conquered cities to their full potential is to keep conquering all the other cities nearby.

Yep, if you conquer or raze all the border cities, then culture is not a problem.

[Wernazuma III]

I followed all your advices by declaring war on bloody Incans and their vassals, razing Dhaka (don't want the strongest enemy civ to have a bridge-head on my continent), conquering Dheli (city at the lower corner of screen 2) and now atacking the culturally FABULOUS Pataliputra. Lamentably I don't have sea control and bloody Incan Destroyers destroy my sea tiles.
I try to counter this with bomber attacks on the ships, taking care of my precious little fleet, making only sting attacks on already damaged enemy ships.

[Dis]

takes time, and lots of it. I'm not sure of the exact forumula. Sometimes when I click on a tile I may see 82% XX, 18% native american etc. In some cases I rush build theatre, library, university, temples etc and I still lose more tiles. The ai does seem to fight for tiles. I didn't realize they did so before this thread.

[trev]

A consistent high culture is needed along wiwth patience to overcome enemy culture, late in the game this is best done by having somethinglike the Sushi corporation in the city, I try to found this corporation always, the culture and food bonus it gives is like magic for growing and expanding captured cites. On archaepalogo maps you can often get 30+ culture per turn in the city from the corporation as well as 7 food extra. This really solidifies your culture quite quickly particularly if you are running free speech.

[slnz]

A note on the mouseover culture percentages: it may well read "0% Incan, 100% Indian", but if you don't have active culture working that point (i.e. a city whose culture reaches that tile) the culture has no effect whatsoever.

And yes, generally culture bombs suck for culture wars. Especially if the city's initial tile reach is small, due to how the culture mechanic works. Oftentimes settling is better, but even more often using/saving the Artists for GAs is even better (if not going for a cultural victory)

In general, it's not often useful to dedicate much resources for border culture wars. If the enemy encroaches you with their culture, this usually means their military is that much weaker. An armed invasion is the best cure to cultural invasion

Also it's good to realize that on conquered territory it's hopeless to fight for land with culture, as the enemies have worked culture on those tiles for thousands of years longer than you.

[rah]

But as stated, if they're currently not influencing it, that doesn't matter.