How do you know when to attack?

[wodan11]

Then build/whip/buy/chop an army worthy of Mordor

Nice touch.

[rah]

Yes, as Thabin points out, if there is an enemy cap near enough protected by warriors, two dog soldiers are much cheaper than a settler and you sometimes get to keep the soldiers (and enemy caps are usually on better land then your second city will get). So don't think of this as a rush, think of it as great early expansion.
And traditionally my nearest neighbor has all the strategic resources in his fat cross that I don't

[Dis]

I like these strats, though I usually play on standard maps, and the second civ usually isn't that close. Something to keep in mind, however. Makes me rethink religion first.

[Dis]

At prince and below ( i think) the AI starts with warriors so a inca warrior rush will be ineffective.

don't you mean effective not inneffective?

[Theben]

don't you mean effective not inneffective?

No. The Quechua unit comes with a +100% bonus vs. archers, as well as Combat 1. This gives it an effective attack strength of 4.2 vs. archers. Against warriors their strength is only 2.2. Still, if you outnumber the enemy by 2/3-1 odds you should win. But you may wish to opt for an archer rush instead if copper isn't available.

[rah]

Warriors get the 25% city defense and if they've been fortified, that will easily offset the combat 1 on attacks. You will lose more attacking warriors then archers. (not taking into account other factors like protective, terrain, ect.

[sorinache]

At the higher levels, the AI starts with archers. If you are planning an early rush, make sure you pick a civ that is NOT protective
Also, if you are early rushing, and you see copper in their territory, and there is a mine on it, destroy the mine and check to see how many axeman he has built already. Your dog soldiers can beat axeman, but you will lose a few more than you might have expected.

I do play emperor and indeed those I've seen those close to me start with 2 archers in their capital. These archers seem to be getting promotions as time passes, without actually fighting (they get city defense 1 and later city defense 2).

I might be wonder whoring : i try to build at least Oracle. I also thought I'd need Stonehenge but gave up on it. Anyway, I need culture in my second city : I can't remember the last time I had a strategic resource near my capital - it's my second city that goes after copper / horses / iron and usually optimal placement requires the resource to be in the BFC, not in the initial square.

I've tried again and they came with Chariots. Now Chariots are nasty because Dogs don't get the 100% bonus against them. Charlemagne is really close. Maybe I stand a chance of surviving (forget about rushing them) if I give up oracle, but it doesn't feel like much fun anyway. I need to go back to what I know how to play (peaceful improver style)

[rah]

Whatever you find fun is what you should be doing. I play SP completely different then MP. I do find MP more interesting due to the really smart AI's

[Theben]

I do play emperor and indeed those I've seen those close to me start with 2 archers in their capital. These archers seem to be getting promotions as time passes, without actually fighting (they get city defense 1 and later city defense 2).

Emperor level you can forget about rushing with the Natives most of the time. Concentrate on expansion and use the Dogs to defend your cities against barbs as they fight well against most of the barb units that come your way. By the time an enemy can field a strong force against you you should be able to field a decent mix of defenders. When you get swords and cats you can take the fight to him.

You still can fight an early "war" to grab 1 or 2 workers from a nearby civ. Generally after 10 turns they'll make peace. Sure they won't ever like you and will probably declare war in the not too distant future, but with the his worker becoming yours you'll have gained a huge jump in production. Just don't grab one from an aggressive civ (Monty=no, Musa= yes).

I might be wonder whoring : i try to build at least Oracle. I also thought I'd need Stonehenge but gave up on it. Anyway, I need culture in my second city : I can't remember the last time I had a strategic resource near my capital - it's my second city that goes after copper / horses / iron and usually optimal placement requires the resource to be in the BFC, not in the initial square.

With the NA at Monarch-> I try to kick out 2 settlers before settling my capital down to do some serious wonder whoring. Normally for a long time my cap will build nothing but wonders and it's up to my other cities to get the rest of the empire up and running. The payoff is the huge amount of Great People coming from my PHIL GP farm (plus the wonders themselves, of course). It works pretty well, but I wouldn't advise it vs a bloodthirsty MP group.

Btw, settling your cap on top of stone or marble goes a long way towards ensuring you get the wonders they help build. Lots of time saved on building roads and a quarry, and if on plains you get the +1 .

I've tried again and they came with Chariots. Now Chariots are nasty because Dogs don't get the 100% bonus against them. Charlemagne is really close. Maybe I stand a chance of surviving (forget about rushing them) if I give up oracle, but it doesn't feel like much fun anyway. I need to go back to what I know how to play (peaceful improver style)

Dogs have a 50-50 chance vs chariots when the Dogs attack, so your situation's not hopeless. But if you have a military city and archery my suggestion would have been to build Drill II, Formation archers. Cheaper than chariots and a good choice since chariots aren't immune to 1st strikes. Or course if you can build spearmen that would be even better. Generally speaking, axemen/dog + spearmen behind walls can handle pretty much anything the AI will throw at you early game.

If you want to early rush at high levels I'd suggest an aggressive civ. Axemen with the cover promotion will do the job most every time. Just pick your targets carefully... preferably no Protective civs, no capitals on a hill.

[Dis]

well I'm not cut out for early rushing it seems. I eventually abandoned this game because I made some mistakes like build Moai statues in the wrong city. And didn't feel like replaying all that. It was a highlands map, and a very difficult starting position, and the map was very difficult to move around due to mountains.

But anyways I early rushed the Koreans (I was native americans), their capitol was only size 1, the city was destroyed. Well that was about worthless. So I reloaded- cheesy I know, but I was determined to do an early rush. I waited till they were size two, but they had an archer by this time. Then they slave whipped another one. Luckily despite it being size one, I was able to take the city. Other civs were too far away, and as mentioned above, almost unreachable.

I was ahead in score, but abandoned the game anyways as I didn't like the map, and messed up my city builds.

I restarted another game on the highlands map as the native americans. Everyone was very far away this game. Never did an early rush. Ended up building the great wall too, never hardly used my dog soldiers. . I fell a little behind in score that game, but made it up after conquering many weakly defended Kmer cities and forcing capitulation. I never played with the Kmer before, despite having good science tech, it never occurred to them to research the tech for Longbows. Even as I was taking their cities they were still researching drama. Knights vs. archers= rofl stomp

[Theben]

They needed the tech to explain how they were feeling...

[Lord Avalon]

I waited till they were size two, but they had an archer by this time. Then they slave whipped another one. Luckily despite it being size one, I was able to take the city.

It wasn't luck. Once a city has reached size 2, you can capture it, even if it gets whipped down to 1.

[Hauptman]

Yeh a quecha rush requires Monarch + dificulty level. It's an icredibly effective way to nulify the dificulty settings and blaze ahead of the competition on crowded maps.

You settle your city then build quecha. Then you build more, well in fact the point is you build nothing BUT quecha. As your city grows your warriors scout looking for targets, it wont be long before you cap even with no improvements is cranking 1 every 2 or 3 turns and they add up fast. Soon as you choose your target and have 4 or 5 quecha inna stack (plus more on the way) you nab the targets workers as they attempt to build roads near the edge of thier borders and charge the capital. Boom, now you negated the issue of not building workers and settlers, you now have plenty of room to expand at your leasure with less competition, and financial goes along way to support your now monsterouse empire.