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**Blaupanzer** · March 6, 2009, 11:33

Be care ful to build some spearmen, or you may find Rameses II's chariots arriving to do to you what you did to Rome. In all honesty, the AI is not very good at early rushes. I would find where the Incas are and take them out too. That ought to be as far as your chariots can carry you, if that far. However, your kashiks could help you with subsequent baddies. For them, the natural defenses of hills and woods that holds back most attackers are no real barrier. You can be upon your opponent before he can really respond.

**Theben** · March 6, 2009, 11:33

What level are you playing at?

**ben04** · March 6, 2009, 12:14

It's prince.

I plan to take out more than just two civs with my chariots.

**Blaupanzer** · March 6, 2009, 12:21

Okay!! Hope it works.

**Theben** · March 6, 2009, 13:22

Originally posted by ben04 View Post

It's prince.

I thought is what prince or lower. Early rushes are harder at higher lvls due to the AIs starting with archery.

I plan to take out more than just two civs with my chariots.

Good luck. I'd aim for William next, since he has a holy city and has the high score. He probably has a weak army.

**wodan11** · March 6, 2009, 13:23

That seems a little overambitious to me. The problem with such plans is that it takes more and more to pull off with each successive civ. They get further away, meaning more travel time and more unit maintenance costs. They get further advanced in tech, meaning you need more units to take them out (again, more maint cost).

Meanwhile, the other players that you can't get to are merrily teching away without such costs.

Inevitably all that happens is that you make yourself some expansion room that you can't take advantage of (you can only make so many cities in the early game before city maint costs cripple you).

The way I view an early rush is that if I can double my territory or prevent from being crowded, it's worth it. Beyond that, it's really only helping other AIs and is hurting me for no benefit. So, to me, it's best to leverage an early war into an optimum size midgame empire with the best available territory (instead of a mix of territory some of which is second best). Then, focus upon infrastructure until the midgame economic benefits are available (Currency, courthouses, etc).

my two cents.

**ben04** · March 6, 2009, 13:46

@Theben
The extra archers that the AI gets by cheating on the higher levels really cripple this strategy, that's the main reason I don't play at a higher level. (Although even crippled it should be possible to take 1 or 2 civs.

)

@wodan11
You forget the piles of money you can get by taking cities. As long as you're conquering you can research at 100%.

**ben04** · March 6, 2009, 14:01

1920BC: I choose to crush the Inca next. My workers begin to build a road towards them. One chariot protects them from wild animals and another is send to scout out the Incan cities.

6 chariots have been build and enter their territory. Unfortunately they built a city on a hill. Luckily it's only protected by one archer (and one Quecha) and has no city defenses. I'll loose a few chariots but it will fall.

The city falls and I loose one chariot. I raze the city as I don't see how it could become productive any time soon. The Incan attacked me with one chariot of their own. I loose one chariot but theirs is destroyed.

So that leaves 4 chariots with 2 of them wounded. But no need to worry as my capital cranks out on level 7 chariots every 2 turns and my roads make sure that they'll arrive in a couple of turns.

My forces march towards the Incan capital.

Curzo isn't on a hill and is protected by 2 archers. I'll make sure to attack from where the worker stands so that the river doesn't provide them with extra defenses but even then I'll loose some units. I'll wait until I have 7 chariots before I attack.

I have 7 chariots and send them to the attack. They have build 2 additional Quechas. I loose 2 chariots but the city falls.

I have a medic in that stack so it will quickly heal. Next stop: The Dutch

A chariot has already been send to them to scout out their lands. Workers will start building a road as soon as soon as some mines have been build in the homeland.

1160BC: Iron Working has been discovered. Next I'll research Writing. Open borders make scouting easier and some libraries can fuel science once maintenance gets too big.

On top of that iron has been discovered near Rom. (Good that I took them out early...) Also Roms Ger is nearly finished. With that iron it will pump out chariots at the same rate as my capital. That make one new level 7 chariot per turn.

1140BC: The first Roman chariot is finished.

950BC: Writing is discovered. I go for Alphabet next. Being able to build science can be a life saver, also it leads to currency which brings a few extra bucks.

8 chariots are ready to role into Dutch land and many more are on their way to them. Time for war

What an easy prey!

I loose 5 chariots but that's no problem. 5 turns and they are replaced. Amsterdam starts building a library. Also I need to make sure that its gold will be worked as I'll need the money.

Now that the war machine is up and running I wont stop but who will be next?

Ramses is too far away and he has iron near his capital. This means that he will have one or more spearmen.

Sitting Bull has just founded a city far away from his homeland to hook up some chopper. This means that he most likely has none home and that means no spearmen. Taking that colony will also prevent him from getting any, also he has a weak no resource imitation of axemen, that he likely will have build plenty of. My chariots can crush through their lines easily.

Then there is Hanibal. I still have no clue where he lives but, knowing from past games, he is not the person to neglect his defenses.

**Theben** · March 6, 2009, 14:45

I think you are underestimating the Native Americans, since Axemen still can attack chariots 1-on-1. Plus you'll probably lose more than a few chariots to their archers.

The main thing is what Wodan mentioned: the AIs you can't reach will outpace you.

**rah** · March 6, 2009, 16:21

Yes, a chairot rush can work but a single spearman on a hill with any culture defense and it's ALL OVER>

**ben04** · March 7, 2009, 08:44

I choose Sitting Bull as my next target.

825BC: I will only be capable to sustain that 100% science rate for another 6 turns. Alphabet is 11 turns away. That wont work. Let's see if someone has already discovered Alphabet and is willing to trade.

I trade Iron working and Horseback Riding for Alphabet and a couple of early techs. He most likely already has chopper so it doesn't matter if he has additional also some iron. Next turn I will try to trade a few techs with Sitting Bull. He doesn't yet have Iron Working.

I set the science rate to 0%. I have 121 gold in my treasury and gain 1 gold per turn. My army is too large, so it moves towards the Indians. Either it conquers them or saves my economy. It will be the last chariot target though.

I attack the chopper outpost. This should be easy.

I loose one chariot but the city falls. A Great General is born and I settle him in my capital.

625BC: Curzo starts building chariots. That's 1.5 new chariots per turn. These things are so cheap.

Darn Poverty Point is well defended. I'll need around 9+ chariots to crack that nut. I'll scout deeper into Indian lands. Perhaps there are a few cities that are easier to take.

I found a perhaps slightly easier target. All those dog soldiers don't stand a chance against my chariots. First I'll go after that settler though.

Also the road towards the Indians is finished. Reinforcements now need around 7 turns to arrive.

Following the settler shows the last of the Indian cities and probably the first one I'm going to take out.

Also Hannibal now shares a religion with Sitting Bull.

I loose 4 chariots and the rest is wounded but I have have a medic in the stack so no need to worry. The remaining not wounded chariot chases after the settler who fled. I raze the city as I don't see of what use it would be to me in the long run.

Stupid Sitting Bull is sending reinforcements to Poverty Point. Of course they will never arrive there. It cost me 3 chariots though.

475BC: Sitting Bull send troops out to clean up my chariots that just cleaned up his reinforcements. They die but more importantly he has now a few troops on the open field. Well long story short: They die.

450BC: Sitting Bull sends 2 Dog soldiers after one of my chariots the first dies while attacking, the second dies because he is now in the open field. Sitting Bull gets a Great General.

400BC: Ramses founds his own Religion. This means that Hannibal and Ramses will most likely go to war at some point.

375BC: I discover that the Indian capital is only defended by just 1 archer. I rush there. I just hope my troops will get there before his.

350BC: Darn too late. I manage to snap a worker though. I concentrate my troops before Poverty Point. I hope he sends reinforcements again. I kill as many of them as I can and attack his capital instead of Poverty Point.

325BC: He sends one archer, one Dog Soldier and one settler (wtf?) as reinforcements. They die.

275BC: I now have a stack of more than 15 chariots. Time to move towards his capital.

225BC: Cahokia is defended by 2 archers and 1 Dog soldier. 19 chariots stand at the gates.

I loose 5 chariots but Cahokia falls.

Now only Poverty Point is left. It's defense bonuses are a bit lower than those of Cahokia. Also it's not on a hill. However it's defended by 5 elite archers (and 1 Dog Soldier). Also Sitting Bull has a 2 techs that he is willing to exchange for peace. I already have 2 war unhappiness in my capital.

On the other hand I have a huge standing army of 30 chariots that costs me 22 gold per turn and that is going to be obsolete if I'm now going to make peace. Also Poverty Point pretty well blocks of my conquered land from both Ramses and Hannibal.

Another thing to note is that I have Ivory.

Hannibal and Ramses are mutual worst enemy. Sitting Bull is the buddy of Hannibal. Redeclaring war on Sitting Bull would hurt my relations with Hannibal. Also opening borders with anyone could make me the worst enemy of someone.

At the moment I have no state religion.

By building science I can get Currency within 6 turns.

Near my capital there is also a jungle infested spot with 2 grassland gems. I have enough workers to clear that jungle. The city would also produce enough gold to largely make up for its maintenance.

**wodan11** · March 7, 2009, 09:55

Originally posted by ben04 View Post

@wodan11
You forget the piles of money you can get by taking cities. As long as you're conquering you can research at 100%.

No, I didn't. And no, you can't. From your own screenshots your research is at 0% and you're losing 9 a turn! ZERO, not 100% !

I repeat: the target cities are further and further away, and you have to send more and more units. Also, some of your units die and need to be rebuilt, which means you're not making infrastructure.

The more you conquer the more it changes from a winning to a losing proposition.

Anyway, nice sample thread. Good work doing it. (I just think you gave an example of how to take a good thing too far. Like an ice cream headache.

Here's a summary of your losses:
vs Rome, only 1 dies taking 2 cities
vs Inca, 3 die taking 2 cities
vs Netherlands, 5 die taking 1 city
vs Amerinds, 13 die taking 2 cities

My guess is Rameses is going to clean your clock, plus any other AIs you haven't even met yet. Your unit maintenance is really high, and your city maintenance is surely through the roof. You need courthouses before you can even begin to recover, plus you should immediately disband at least 11 chariots. Can you show us a screenshot of the F2 sceen?

**wodan11** · March 7, 2009, 10:02

After the Inca is the turning point, IMO. Taking the Netherlands forced you to build something like 20 more chariots and to drop your research to 0%. Amsterdam is debatable but IMO taking on Sitting Bull was sheer lunacy. Even if it wasn't a PRO leader it would have been a bad idea.

**ben04** · March 7, 2009, 11:34