Upkeep costs : inflation - what the ... ?

[sorinache]

I was trying to make sense of my upkeep costs. I've just started a new game as Willem of the Dutch (the **** seems awesome and in the right world the east indiaman can be great as well). I am not expanding as mad (never was) yet I can't seem to be able to keep my costs in check. Especially after my last game as Darius the Persian (I was certainly underrating the power of the "Organized" trait ...).

So I'm looking at my costs and see that I'm suffering 19% inflation ... err ... pardon me ? Why's that ? Why 19% and not 5% or 46% ? I've done a search in the forums but came back empty handed. Does anyone know how this "inflation" number is calculated ? I mean, historically speaking, I thought for most of history inflation was almost zero because the money supply was physically limited by the supply of precious metals. Is there a way to reduce this number ?

Broadening the topic, is there a source where the algorithm for calculating upkeep costs is explained ? The way the unit number influences my costs is mind boggling for instance : I get some free units then some free military units then what's in excess costs money then I get some kind of reduction ... If someone can explain how it's calculated and what are the basic levers to reduce the costs, I'd be glad to hear. I mean, besides reducing the number of cities (yeah, right) and the distance to the palace (one has no other choice but to expand further and further away, so this is not really a lever) ... These two are pretty simple to grasp, but all the rest is cloudy : apart from trying and then reloading a save, I can't tell in advance how changing civics will impact my revenue and I'd be very interested to be able to do this.

[ColdPhoenix]

Don't think you can have much affect on inflation. There is an event that can be used to reduce it (think you need to be running Free Market and have 1000 gold to have a chance of it triggering).

Unit upkeep cost more if they are outside your borders so keep them at home if they're not being useful abroad.

You can get an idea on more expensive civics from the civics screen and if you've a big empire then state property will help keep down costs. It would be nice to have the ability to toggle between civics to decide which is best without having a revolution though...

[Blaupanzer]

Vassalage reduces unit costs. These are calculated based on units at home and abroad. The number of "free" home units goes up with each city founded. The number of "free" away units is fixed and includes ships, workers, and great people as well as military units in the territory of friends or enemies. Vassalage adds a fixed number of "free" additional home units and a variable number of "free" away units. (Mouse over the head in the science tables, I think this varies by difficulty level and map size.)

As to inflation, I believe certain techs and certain timeframes do affect the inflation rate, but I don't know which ones are in on this. Inflation appears to go up steadily all game. The only time I really notice is when I'm managing the national budget tightly and costs take an off-the-wall jump. I check the budget page, and if all else is the same, check inflation which apparently takes a few jumps in cost in addition to its steady rise.

[CerberusIV]

You can't really do anything about inflation - it just goes up. You also can't do anything about the cost of cities as you need to have a decent sized empire to even survive in the game. You can't do much about military as you need a decent army to keep the AI's off your back (although it is worth keeping your units up to date as a rifleman costs the same as a warrior but is a lot more effective).

If the costs are getting too high you need to make more money. Do build courthouses as a priority, especially in cities distant from your palace and FP. Build harbours in coastal cities for the better trade routes they give. Cities that have enough production and commerce should build market/grocer/bank. Build cottages early - they make more gold than anything else.

In the late game a corporation can make quite a profit for you if used carefully.

As for the cost of civics the cost per turn is shown as you mouseover the civic but there is no way to tell the other effects except to save and try a new civic. Experience will eventually tell you what works for your play style. Experiment!

[Unimatrix11]

(...)It would be nice to have the ability to toggle between civics to decide which is best without having a revolution though...

That´s what the Christo Redentor (BTS) allows you to do - but obviously only late in the game, though.

[Blaupanzer]

Civs with spiritual leaders can do the switch without anarchy from the beginning, the strength of that trait.

[ColdPhoenix]

The only problem with that is if you don't like the new civic you have to wait 4 turns until you can change out of it.

[wodan11]

Why would you switch to a new civic if you didn't like it to start with?

[Unimatrix11]

If you are too lazy, to do the math needed to determine, wether it´s a good idea to change from bureaucracy to free speech for example. Or the commercial civics - it´s hard to tell, to what exactly ´+1 trade route´ will amount to, sometimes.

[wodan11]

So I don't know which road to drive, right or left, so I flip a coin and take the left route. But then after driving for a couple of miles I decide I should go the other way instead, and it's a while before I can find a cross-route to get back over there. What's the problem?

[Blaupanzer]

They want a "whoops" button, to make a decision to see how something works without suffering any consequences.

[wodan11]

They want a "whoops" button, to make a decision to see how something works without suffering any consequences.

It's called save and reload.

[Jaybe]

If they want a "whoops" button, then they'll have to use the save/quicksave -- load game sequence. REAL Civ4 immersion adherents would accept their civic change consequences until they can change back.
Yes, that's a house rule for me (though I DO prefer to have the Christo Redempter wonder).

[sorinache]

Vassalage reduces unit costs. These are calculated based on units at home and abroad. The number of "free" home units goes up with each city founded. The number of "free" away units is fixed and includes ships, workers, and great people as well as military units in the territory of friends or enemies. Vassalage adds a fixed number of "free" additional home units and a variable number of "free" away units. (Mouse over the head in the science tables, I think this varies by difficulty level and map size.)

Certainly, but then Vassalage means I can't run Bureaucracy, which is a boomer, because my capital is (always) by far my best city and until late in the game the other cities taken together can't come close to what my capital with Bureaucracy can achieve ...

As to inflation, I believe certain techs and certain timeframes do affect the inflation rate, but I don't know which ones are in on this. Inflation appears to go up steadily all game. The only time I really notice is when I'm managing the national budget tightly and costs take an off-the-wall jump. I check the budget page, and if all else is the same, check inflation which apparently takes a few jumps in cost in addition to its steady rise.

For a strategy game such as Civ, that is certainly a weak spot. I'm surprised there's noone here with a clear grasp of managing something as important as the costs of the empire ... And is certainly a shame that the game does not seem to offer real in-game levers to manage these costs. There could have been some techs / buildings / units / wonders offering a way to influence this.

I'm very unsatisfied with my costs, I'm forced to run the science at only 50%. In the meanwhile my neighbour Saladin decided I'm his worst ennemy and we are waging almost continuous war : he declares, invades me with a huge army, gets trounced, accepts peace, then rebuilds an army and 4-5 turns later declares war on me again. From the wonders that are buing built in far away lands I guess I'm sliding back in technology but I can't do much about it ...

[rah]

It's not what your science slider is at, It's how many beakers you're cranking.
If I have pyramids and running rep, my slider could be at 40 but I'll still be twice the beakers as my neighbor.
And it's 10 turns after he accepts peace before he can attack again. Use the money he'll give you to accept peace, upgrade the experienced units that survived his last attack and after he declares again, take out the mobile army he sends into your territory and then take his cities. Problem solved. Only keep a few of his cities and destroy the rest.