Better AI mod?

[Nugog]

Given that he started out in the middle of the south pacific [New Zealand], it's not much of a move

Blake lived down south - it is almost Antartic down there.

[DirtyMartini]

wodan11 --

I guess the problem isn't the mod per se, it's finding a combination of mod, difficulty level, and settings that provides a level of challenge that is interesting without being too difficult. Before installing better AI, I was usually bored playing Prince, Monarch was tough out of the gate, but if I got to 0 AD in decent shape, I could generally win without too much trouble because the AI doesn't wage war very well. Emperor was too tough out of the gate.

After installing better AI, I've started quite a few games, and Monarch just feels like a killer. I'll feel like I've got a pretty decent start going and then I'll find out that the AI is out teching me like mad (way beyond how it used to tech) and is too strong to crush militarily.

What prompted the post was that I dialed it back to Prince and I still feel like it's darn tough. Just wondering if my experience is a product of small sample size, or if others have had a similar experience when switching to better AI. I guess it isn't accurate to say it has made the game less fun, it has just made it harder to find the correct settings for a fun, yet winnable game.

[wodan11]

wodan11 --

I guess the problem isn't the mod per se, it's finding a combination of mod, difficulty level, and settings that provides a level of challenge that is interesting without being too difficult.

Couldn't you adjust what skill level you play at? i.e., it stands to reason that if you play with a smarter AI, you should drop down a level (or 2!)

Before installing better AI, I was usually bored playing Prince, Monarch was tough out of the gate, but if I got to 0 AD in decent shape, I could generally win without too much trouble because the AI doesn't wage war very well.

Actually, more important than waging war, IMO the base AI doesn't build infrastructure very well. This is somewhat not obvious, whereas lack of skill waging war is kind of obvious.

After installing better AI, I've started quite a few games, and Monarch just feels like a killer. I'll feel like I've got a pretty decent start going and then I'll find out that the AI is out teching me like mad (way beyond how it used to tech) and is too strong to crush militarily.

The default AI will do stupid crap like workshop over cottages. At the same time it's cottaging a workshop in the same city. Open WB sometime and take a look at what that AI's workers are doing.

Just me but that's a big downer. Makes me feel like a victory over the moron AI is totally worthless. So I actively seek out the best AI I can, in whatever mod I can find.

(And, BTW, that's why lately I'm getting disillusioned over FFH2... it retains some of the moronic AI routines.)

What prompted the post was that I dialed it back to Prince and I still feel like it's darn tough. Just wondering if my experience is a product of small sample size, or if others have had a similar experience when switching to better AI. I guess it isn't accurate to say it has made the game less fun, it has just made it harder to find the correct settings for a fun, yet winnable game.

Sounds like if you don't win you think you wasted your time? Some games I've lost were the most fun games I ever had.

[joncnunn]

Large parts of Better AI for Warlords ended up in the base Beyond the Sword. The rest was included in the unofficial patches.

What I don't know is if work was continued on ways to improve the AI on top of what was in the last unofficial patch.

[wodan11]

What I don't know is if work was continued on ways to improve the AI on top of what was in the last unofficial patch.

Yes. There's a whole forum for it.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=245

[Jaybe]

Oooh! New Version just released:
Version 0.70 Discussion Thread - CFC

For de tails, check out the spoiler in the first post.

[DirtyMartini]

Couldn't you adjust what skill level you play at? i.e., it stands to reason that if you play with a smarter AI, you should drop down a level (or 2!)

I'm haven't been trying to start a "game's too hard now, boo hoo" conversation. I don't really care what level I'm playing at. What I'm looking for (and am having trouble finding) is a constellation of mod/settings that reliably set up a challenging game, but not one that is unwinnable (for me given my level of ability). I don't need to win every game, in fact, I'd say under ideal conditions, the game would be sufficiently challenging that I'd lose or quit about 50% of the time.

Basically, I started the thread hoping that someone more familiar with the mod than me would have some input along the lines of "yeah, with Better AI, it's pretty hard to axeman rush, the ai is better at defending itself early" or "yeah, the AI now knows the power of cottages -- the financial AIs will put a hurting on you" or "no, I haven't noticed much difference in the ai's overall performance, I just notice that it manages its land better" or whatever.

Maybe I should just check out the CFC thread -- but I'm not familiar with most of those posters, so it can be hard to pick out the people with something trustworthy to say.

[Dinner]

Oooh! New Version just released:
Version 0.70 Discussion Thread - CFC

For de tails, check out the spoiler in the first post.

Have you tried it? How well does it work?

[Arrian]

I have BtS patched to 3.17. I do not have the better AI patch (as noted above, a lot of the better AI work went into BtS and its patches).

DM - did you go from where I am to the unofficial patch, or did you go from Warlords or basic CIV straight to where you're at now? I ask because you seem to have encountered a pretty significant change.

-Arrian

[DirtyMartini]

I patched from BTS 3.17 + most recent (?) version of the unofficial patch to a fairly recent version of the improved AI mod.

It feels like a big change. Feels like about 1.5 difficulty levels. Like Monarch was the sweet spot before, new Prince is equal to old Monarch + a little bit extra mustard.

Could be that I've just gotten sloppy or lost some skills/attention to detail. I definitely play quickly, and I know that makes me suboptimal at times.

[joncnunn]

A couple of questions, is the baseline it's comparing against BTS 3.17 or the unoffical patch?

And the other is did it reverse the unofficial patch's removal of colaterial damage promotions for tanks? Re: "Fixed bug introduced in unofficial patch causing immunity to collateral damage"

[joncnunn]

One more thing, if it feels like 1 1/2 levels more difficult, perhaps the next version of the unofficial patch should incorporate scaling back AI's advantages in the handicap.xml. ()s indicate the level the human has to be playing at to get that bonus.

Here's a summary I'd made of AI advantages on Noble
AI bonuses on Noble:
1. AI Animals's -70% (Chief) instead of -40% ***
2. AI Barbs -40% (Chief) instead of -10% ***
3. 35% AI unit supply cost ***
4. 30% AI unit upgrade cost ***
5. 70% AI Inflation (Warlord) vs 90%
6. 70% AI WW (100% Chief)
"No tech trade mod" = 70% (100% Chief)

*** Items are the AI bonuses that would be top of my list to reduce or eliminate.

[DirtyMartini]

I'm not sure exactly how the unofficial patch and the better ai mod interact.