how to build corporation ?

[sorinache]

Civilized Miners (or whatever is called) is GREAT (for me) !!!!

The documentation on corporations is completely confusing. It appears to have been written before the designers sorted out the details of the corporations gameplay. Anyhow, I've just discovered that Civilized Miners (or whatever) is THE answer to my low hammer production issue !!! I'm delighted.

The Koreans have beaten me to Sid Sushi (I had no great merchant, because I didn't need to produce merchant GPs ...). Since Tokugawa is not in my game, that sounds legitimate too ;o). Some other guys have beaten me to Creative Constructions - I don't have stone nor marble so that's not a big problem anyway.

So I founded Civilized (? can't remember what's really called) Miners in my capital using a Great Engineer. My Civ has access to 1 coal, 1 copper, 3 iron deposits (I'm about to get access to some more soon, this is simply too good to resist). I've spread the corp to a couple of my own cities up to now (plan to spread it to all my cities and try the effect of spreading it to other civs as well. The corp adds thus 5 hammers in each of the cities ! In exchange for money, of course, but I find the cost is totally reasonable (in free market at least). For my capital with forge, factory, coal plant, bureacracy that is 11 hammers per turn, not something to sniff at ! Similarly for my Iron Works city. I have now 3 cities producing more than 50 hammers per turn - that starts to feel more confortable on the production side.

So I suspect the money Civilized Jewelry will add also depends on how many FREE "gold / precious gems / silver" I have available. Since the gems are my only currency when trading with other civs, out of the three I have access to, only one is available. I have one gold too, but that's all - the Koreans have already settled in the far north where there are 4 siver deposits and they haven't even mined / fortified them ! ... I'll found Civ jewelers anyway because I have a Great Artist available and need to keep up with the increased cost of spreading Civ Miners.

[wodan11]

You kidding, right ? I'm playing normal speed, not epic or marathon. My farms support specialists. If I switch to cottages, by the time they grew to towns I'll be dead meat already, the AI would never allow me the leisure to watch my cottages grow to hamlets, villages and so on.

Emancipation vastly accelerates Town growth.

The SE->CE switch is a very powerful strategy. But yes, it is best if timed properly and planned for from early in the game.

You are right, sorry, I should have said "free religion". I'm a science bulb addict. I should say "was", because of Civ I and II. I'm just beginning to realize how much more interesting and rich the gameplay of Civ IV / BtS is, thanks, among many other things, to the addition of GP points.

The +10% bulbs from free religion can be deceiving. Generally this can be eclipsed by the benefit you get from other religious civics. Plus, if you have Spiral / Sankore keep in mind you lose them if you switch to FR.

FR is often good for the diplomatic benefits... if you find yourself at odds with a bunch of AIs of another religion, then switching to FR can get you off the hook. Also, FR is often quite useful for the happiness benefit, more than anything else.

[wodan11]

Sorinache, you generally should found the corp in the city which has a lot of commerce or merchant specialists, and where you have Wall Street. Reason being that this will maximize the income benefit and drastically compensate for the cost you have to pay in corp maintenance. So usually this is NOT your capitol. Just a suggestion.

[sorinache]

Sorinache, you generally should found the corp in the city which has a lot of commerce or merchant specialists, and where you have Wall Street. Reason being that this will maximize the income benefit and drastically compensate for the cost you have to pay in corp maintenance. So usually this is NOT your capitol. Just a suggestion.

As it happens, I don't have wall street (yet). This is because I ran with 100% science till 1810 and because I was short on hammers. My cash came from my capitol (Hindu great shrine Kishnu Vishnawath + Jewish great shrine Salomon's Temple) and from my second city (christian great shrine Nativity Basilica). These cities built moai statues (on archipelago, there really are LOTS of coastal tiles) + national epic and oxford university + ironworks. Yes, I know it's not optimal, but this is how I played. My third city produces lots of hammers and is geared toward producing military units (heroic epic, great general and soon probably red cross), it doesn't have enough commerce to be a good place for wall street. I plan to build wall street in my fourth city, but this one is unfortunately a bit of a laggard hammer-wise ...

[Willem]

This is because I ran with 100% science till 1810 and because I was short on hammers.

If you're able to run your slider at 100% for that long, then you aren't expanding enough. Most people will build new cities until they start gettting into the 40-50% range, then work on their economy at that point. Remember that 100% of 0 is still 0. With more cities under your control, a 40% rate can get you more beakers than just a few cities at 100%.

[Ming]

Yeah... many people are "concerned" about the percentage they are running. This is a mistake. You should be more concerned about what the absolute numbers are. Running 100% science and your total beakers per turn is only 45, is far worse than an economy that runs at 50% science, but generates 100 beakers. While growth may mean you have to drop your science rate, you still will generate more beakers in the long run. Remember, it's the beakers, not the percentage that matters.

[wodan11]

What they all said.

And, I understand what you're saying... regardless, my two cents for future games is plan ahead and put your corp where you plan to have Wall Street. You have to do one before the other... stating the circumstance in between shouldn't necessarily decide your course.

[sorinache]

If you're able to run your slider at 100% for that long, then you aren't expanding enough. Most people will build new cities until they start gettting into the 40-50% range, then work on their economy at that point. Remember that 100% of 0 is still 0. With more cities under your control, a 40% rate can get you more beakers than just a few cities at 100%.

Very good point, I concur to it - I'm a perfectionist, couldn't help it : I tend to say : "I'll just build the hindu monastery before making a new settler" then "oh, my people are unhappy, I'll just build the jewish temple before making a settler". And then, when I finally come along to building a settler there are no more places to expand, the bloody AI have taken all the spots I'll replay this game and try to expand faster and further.

But although I could and should have expanded more, my 100% was definitely not that puny, since I'm at or near the top in tech. But clearly I would have liked to have 3 - 4 more well developed cities.

[sorinache]

What they all said.

And, I understand what you're saying... regardless, my two cents for future games is plan ahead and put your corp where you plan to have Wall Street. You have to do one before the other... stating the circumstance in between shouldn't necessarily decide your course.

I've just noticed in my yesterday's evening session that Miners Inc. and Civilized Jewelery are mutually exclusive . I put Miners Inc. in all my serious cities and will use my great artist in a military campaign - after analysing the pros and cons, I decided to make peace with the Zulus and go after the Dutch. Amsterdam is a beautiful spot (has lots of resources and world wonders, unlike the zulu cities). I plan to conquer it and once I quelled the rebellion, my great artist will build a masterpiece there (to celebrate my conquering the city )

[Unimatrix11]

sorinache: I, too, tend to prioritze on buildings when i shouldn´t. To counter this, i now avoid researching those techs in the first place. Before you reach a certain size, all you should build is workers, settlers, militrary units and maybe granaries and an occaisional library. If i go the religious route, i either lack the settlers, the workers or the units at some point and either dont expand enough, have a poorly developed mid-sized empire or get stomped by an AI.

[rah]

I put library on the still need to build list early on. If you're expanding like crazy early, your slider is going to be dropping quickly, so any city (not all cities obviously) that has extra food has to be running a few scientists to make up for the low slider or the AI is going to come calling with superior units.

[Ming]

A library also has the added advantage of providing more culture. Even if it doesn't really add much additional science until later in the game, the culture advantage can make a big difference early on in key border cities.

[sorinache]

more info on Miners Inc.

I don't know if this might be useful to someone, but just in case I'm not the only newbye reading this :

So apparently Miners. Inc (or whatever is called) adds a maximum of 6 hammers per city you put it in, even if you the sum of your spare coal+copper+iron is more than 6. Too bad, I was contemplating adding +10 hammers per city ...

In addition, it also adds +4 in the city where it has the headquarters I didn't get this in time ... I should have founded it in my (future) Wall Street city ... I thought only Civ Jewelers was adding money

I don't really see the point in spreading it to the AI civs : i sent an executive to a carthaginian city (then tried with a korean city and it's the same). When I prepare to expand, it says +3 , -9 , and a one-time cost of expansion (196 ). The cost is immediately deducted from my balance. The 3 hammers are added to the AI city (I suspect) and the maintenance cost of -9 gold is substracted from the AI income every turn, but it does not appear to add to mine ... Instead, I get the usual 4 in the HQ ... With market, grocer and bank that's 24 turns to recoup the initial investment ... not horrible but I definitely have better options for the 100 the executive costed me ...

[bobbo008]

In a few games I've sent a single executive to each of the largest civs (6+ cities) with good results. They'll often expand the corporation into all their cities, and then you're talking 30 gold/turn for your HQ on your initial 200 gold/100 hammer investment. Not bad for longer games, especially if they don't have many of the associated resources themselves. I've had an HQ rake in over 400 gold/turn in some games.

Although more importantly, I just enjoy the thought of spreading my corporation around the globe.

[sorinache]

In a few games I've sent a single executive to each of the largest civs (6+ cities) with good results. They'll often expand the corporation into all their cities, and then you're talking 30 gold/turn for your HQ on your initial 200 gold/100 hammer investment. Not bad for longer games, especially if they don't have many of the associated resources themselves. I've had an HQ rake in over 400 gold/turn in some games.

Interesting point. It might be worth the trouble to spread my corp to the carthaginians then - they were extremely thorough at spreading MY religions to their cities (all their main cities have hindu, juda and chris, which means lotsa' cash for my great shrines). But giving each of their cities +3 might be dangerous. How would my relations with them be affected by my spreading Miners Inc. to their territory ? Is this taken positively or negatively ? You might understand that I would hate to, at the same time, increase their production capability AND make them unhappy with me ...

Although more importantly, I just enjoy the thought of spreading my corporation around the globe.

I can relate to that !