BtS : More n00b questions

[sorinache]

Is it just me or is BtS sorely lacking on the documentation side ?

Can someone please enlighten me on the following topics ?

- when looking at the in-game score list, next to each AI civ line I can see whether I am linked to their commercial network (the yellow arrows), whether I have an open-borders treaty with it, what is their state religion (if any). This info was there in Civ IV already. Now BtS has added another "espionnage" icon - can someone tell me what it stands for ? Some AI civs have it, others don't. I've checked my espionnage screen and those that have it are not the ones I'm directing my espionnage points toward.

- I'm pretty disappionted with the espionnage features - I don't seem to be able to do anything except build spies and station them in my own cities for counter espionnage as I was doing with "diplomats" back in Civ I and II days. I'm not even able to see the demographics of ennemy cities that the 4 spies of the Civ IV original allowed me to ... Anyone able to actually spend his espionnage points usefully ? Each time I've tried something my tentative was thwarted, even when it was something rather benign such as spreading culture

- I'm plying BtS out of the box, with no patch (ver. 3.0.0.xy) so this might be a bug - but when looking at the score screen (right-most button in the upper-right corner, below the Civilopaedia button) I only see my score and that of my immediat neighbor, although I should have enough espionnage points to see the scores of at least another 2 or 3 other civ's. Is this normal ? Is there something I should do in order to see those other scores ?

[snoopy369]

You generate ESP points TOWARDS each civ, so if you are only sending them to one civ, you only get that civ on your score box. Put more points towards other civs (ctrl+e brings up that option, I think).

Culture spreading is not benign - it's the way to peacefully capture cities.

You should be able to steal tech/etc. without too much difficulty, but pay attention to the difficulty of each mission. I don't know if that got adjusted in a patch, so perhaps you should patch; but I steal tech with no problem (especially with a great spy).

[wodan11]

I'm pretty disappionted with the espionnage features - I don't seem to be able to do anything except build spies and station them in my own cities for counter espionnage as I was doing with "diplomats" back in Civ I and II days. I'm not even able to see the demographics of ennemy cities that the 4 spies of the Civ IV original allowed me to ... Anyone able to actually spend his espionnage points usefully ? Each time I've tried something my tentative was thwarted, even when it was something rather benign such as spreading culture

Are you aware that your spy gets a bonus for fortifying in the target (up to 5 turns for max bonus)?

[sorinache]

yes, I've tried to

yes, I'm aware of the bonus from fortifying in an ennemy city - when I've tried to do so my spy was uncovered after about 3 turns ...

[snoopy369]

That typically occurs when either your enemy has a spy in the same city defensively, or you have a poor espionage balance versus that particular enemy.

[wodan11]

Yes, when you get your spy there LOOK at the city to see if it has a spy or security bureau (etc). If they do, go to a different city. Try the smallest/newest city he has, unless you have to cross a lot of territory to get to it.

Generally I send in 2-4 spies all at the same time. One or two of them will be uncovered but the others will get through.

[Supr49er]

Welcome to Apolyton sorinache.

[sorinache]

Welcome to Apolyton sorinache.

Thanks Which one is you in the profile picture ?

[Supr49er]

I'm in the green shirt and ridiculous cowboy hat.
The other two guys are my younger brothers.
Wine tasting at Clautiere Winery in Paso Robles, CA.

[Garth Vader]

I don't use spies at all anymore. I did the first few games. Even though I have moved up a few difficulty levels I don't have any problems with AI espionage. Just build the +esp buildings when you can.

[Willem]

Now BtS has added another "espionnage" icon - can someone tell me what it stands for ? Some AI civs have it, others don't. I've checked my espionnage screen and those that have it are not the ones I'm directing my espionnage points toward.

Those that have the icon are civs you have a good espionage point surplus with. I'm not sure what the trigger is but it only appears when your ratio of espionage points towards them is a certain amount higher than theirs is towards you.

I'm not even able to see the demographics of ennemy cities that the 4 spies of the Civ IV original allowed me to ...

Demographics are a passive activity. Once you have enough points against a civ you'll be able to see that info on the graph. Eventually you will also be able to see what tech they're researching and be able to see what's happening in and around their cities. You'll be able to open up their city screens just like you can with your own, though you can't adjust anything while you're there.

I only see my score and that of my immediat neighbor, although I should have enough espionnage points to see the scores of at least another 2 or 3 other civ's. Is this normal ? Is there something I should do in order to see those other scores ?

Again, you just need to have enough points for those graphs to appear. To the right of the Espionage screen you'll see a list of how many you need for each activity.

[sorinache]

I'm in the green shirt and ridiculous cowboy hat.
The other two guys are my younger brothers.
Wine tasting at Clautiere Winery in Paso Robles, CA.

I don't know why but I would have bet so. Usually, when one introduces himself with a photo on which there are many persons, he's the one taking the center of the picture. But here, the guy with the green shirt and the cowboy hat projects so much authority that he manages to move the center to him, despite being to the right )

[sorinache]

modifying esp costs ?

I don't use spies at all anymore. I did the first few games. Even though I have moved up a few difficulty levels I don't have any problems with AI espionage. Just build the +esp buildings when you can.

I'm tempted to do the same - I find the feature poorly balanced - it's "a choice too many" that BtS has added. I wasn't missing the power of the diplomats / spies in Civ I and II, they were completely unbalanced and making winning the game too easy. In BtS, they seem to have moved the slider all the way to the other end : linking the "info screen" to the espionnage feature is not a bad thing per se, but setting the costs so high as to meke it useless is poor balancing. It's not realistic, it's not fun, it's not interesting.

In my current game I haven't built any +esp buildings except courthouses - I feel I'm rather low in "hammer production" and I need to prioritize - building a jail or a security hq or whatnot means not building something else.

I'd like to be able to modify the costs for seeing the demographics of other nations - IMO, the esp points produced by the palace and 6 -10 courthouses should be enough to allow me to see the power graphs of at least 3 - 5 other civs (not only ONE, as is now the case). Is that feasible (I guess so) and where should I go to modify these costs ? Thanks

[bobbo008]

I too agree that spies are relatively worthless. In fact the only fear enemy spies strike in me is the fear of them sabotaging some improvement and me forgetting to follow the pointer on the edge of the screen before it disappears.

[Unimatrix11]

Try this: Take a spy to an enemy city which you want to conquer, and have it start a revolt in there the turn you can assault that city. The revolt causes the defence bonus to drop to 0% for a turn - just enough to take the city without having to bombard it first.

Spies in BTS are kinda optional - you can use them, but you can do without. But they are certainly not useless per se. In some situation maybe, but most times they offer powerful suplemental tactics for whatever it is, you want to achieve.