War Elephants

[Ming]

Are war elephants too powerful?

I've noticed that in many games that if I don't have elephants near by, I feel like starting a new game.

And in MP games, if I see that my neighbors have them and I don't, I know it's going to be a short game for me

Granted, they don't get defensive bonues and only move one, but they become available early, and their 8 strength makes them real killers. If you have stables and give them shock, they can take out spearman. It really takes pikeman to do the job properly on elephants. And they pretty slaughter other mounted units all the way up to Cav. And even then, they at least stand a chance.

Yeah, there are tons of better units out there, but you can get elephants really early in the game, and they have a long shelf life.

[joncnunn]

In my last few games, Ivory hasn't even been on my landmass.

Edit: Recently started a new game; I've now explored my entire landmass : Again, no Ivory on it.

[Supr49er]

Even worse is if you start near Suryavarman. He always has ivory in my games and his Ballistas are formidible.

Ivory does seem to be fairly rare, I don't expect to get it.

[Ming]

Yeah... it seems rare... I don't get it, but my neighbors do

I guess I notice it more in MP games. In SP games, I can usually deal with it easier since the AI is such a moron.

[Krill]

Yeah...Elephants are uber. They really ought to require Metal Casting at the very least, in addition to HBR and construction.

[jnh140]

I almost never find the ivory, and typically in the games i play the elephants turn out to be emergency defensive units, usually because I forgot to build enough Dewds. Its amazing how turning out a few war elephants will typically send the enemy stack running, horribly mangled, back into their home territory.

with your war elephants slowly marching deep into the foreign lands.

[Ming]

They are really good at protecting your cats from being ravaged by horse archers. They also hold up very well against knights.

[Blaupanzer]

Try playing as Suryavarman w/o elephants. Of course, it can be done but part of the point is lost.

At the time of their arrival, both cats and elephants seem overpowered. Emphasis is on elephants because of their rare resource requirement, and the fact that ivory is also a luxury resource (so the AI go after as soon as they see it). The elephant remains powerful, as Ming notes, all the way to knights and a few together can give even cuirassiers a good licking. Other than workers, and infantry in the last half of the game, no unit is as useful for so long.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
Try playing as Suryavarman w/o elephants. Of course, it can be done but part of the point is lost.

Just like playing Japan and the Romans and not having Iron... Or any of the Horse UU based Civs and not having horses.

The biggest screw is really Japan. Every other civ can build macemen with copper or iron. Japan must have iron, or they miss out on a key unit in the game.

[rah]

I never understood the diff for japan's sams.

They did recognize the advantages of Eles when they added horsebackriding as an additional requirement. Remember what it was like before.

And I wish eles where more handled like the strategic resources then normal resources. It kills me when there are none within 20 squares of me and the other side of the world has clumps all over the place. More evenly spread/like horses and metals would be better. I had a city the other day that had 5 eles in reach. You'd never see 5 coppers in the same city BFC.

[Ming]

Originally posted by rah
And I wish eles where more handled like the strategic resources then normal resources. It kills me when there are none within 20 squares of me and the other side of the world has clumps all over the place. More evenly spread/like horses and metals would be better. I had a city the other day that had 5 eles in reach. You'd never see 5 coppers in the same city BFC.

Good point...
And another difference is that they are viewable from the very beginning, with no science requirement to uncover them. No other resourse that is needed to build a unit is viewable at the start of the game.

[Blaupanzer]

Nor do any of the other resources necessary for units also provide smiley faces. Makes Ivory a resource worth going to war over. However the civ that has it is going to be very tough in any but the earliest rush. After all, they have 'phants and you don't.

[Ming]

It is indeed one of those resources that are worth going to war over, especially VERY early in the game. If my neighbor has one and I don't, they become my first target... and they must be taken before they get construction

Fortunately, the AI doesn't put the same priority on construction that most human players do. Even in games where I'm getting out teched early, I get to construction long before the AI's do.

[Theben]

Interesting... the AI usually gets Construction well before I do. Then again it's SP. I tend to target Literature while others get Iron Working, Mathematics or Construction.

[Ming]

I take it you are more of a builder than warrior

In SP games, you do have that choice. In MP games, cats are the answer to many "problems"

I really never have problems getting to construction before the AI. But, as you suggest, I don't have literature at the time. Usually, I don't even have iron works unless I don't have copper or horses.