Major help needed with waging war!

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by rah
I do that in a few circumstances, but I don't sit outside of cities long enough for that to matter. Besides that take an extra turn to get your troups behind the city. If you use mobile units ahead of your force to do it, they are picked off.

And finally, if you're swing a big hammer, having all the nails arrange themselves in the same place is not always that bad of a thing

Bingo on your last line. In my experience, invasions against the AI are about breaking his army first, and taking his cities second. The more cities I take, the broader front I usually have to defend, though the fewer cities he has building troops. If I can take a stack in and suck his lands dry of troops at the first city, all the better for me, as I can then just leave a single defender and whatever attackers are healing in a city to defend it.

Of course, that requires that the stack be at least big enough to kill units faster than he can replace them, including healing time in hostile territory. A 25%-healing medic is really useful here, as it lets you rotate attackers while others heal. Getting even the most badly injured attacker back in no more than 4 turns reduces the necessary stack size to be able to nibble away 2-3 enemy defenders per turn. Rather than build up the stack in my territory, then march in, this lets me build up a small stack, which at first may only be siege and a combat, guerilla or woodsman-promoted axe/mace/whatever or two, depending on terrain, with the medic and CR units dribbling in from my border city as they become available. This lets me reduce the city's cultural defenses faster than if I waited to assemble my whole stack (or let my CR units heal, for subsequent cities), which is especially helpful when I'm short on siege and need a few turns to knock them all the way down, and the medic lets me start attacking with CR units as soon as they arrive in camp. A downside might be increased supply costs in some cases, but I've never noticed them increase to the point that I needed to act on it. You're supplying fewer units in the early turns, but supplying units for more turns overall, so I'd imagine it cancels out in some cases, reduces supply in some cases and increases it in the rest.

With this approach, moving to the back of the city exposes my CR units on their way to the camp, in addition to preventing enemy units that I want coming to the city from, in some cases, even venturing out. That usually leads to tougher fights in subsequent cities, which otherwise would be down to an archer and axeman or something along those lines.

[Blaupanzer]

You can take some cities and then stop. You don't have to take every single city at once. Otherwise you will overprepare for the first attack and never quite get around to it. (Everyone needs a round tuit.)

[Solomwi]

Re: Major help needed with waging war!

Originally posted by TieSolo
Also, even if I have all my cities producing units to fund my war machine, that means I'm falling behind in other areas, and by the time this produces a big enough army, the enemy always seems to have strengthened or they tech up and have better units.

There are definite "conquest windows" in the game, typically as soon as you gain a new offensive unit. You can take measures to enlarge them, usually either by beelining the enabling tech to get your superior units into the field faster or, less commonly, retarding your enemy's tech progress to delay his getting the counter to your unit into the field. You can also see them pass without opening, by being later getting your unit into thefield than the AI is in fielding the counter to it.

The trick is recognizing these windows before they open, so you can exploit them when they do, for instance by saving cash to upgrade several units to the new, window-providing unit the first turn it's available. One common mistake I used to make is what Blaupanzer alludes to: waiting until I have a massive army to attack, by which time the window has begun to close. It's easy to think "Just a couple more axemen will ensure the victory... wait, I need a few more catapults, too..." and by the time you go on the march, you're facing dug-in longbows, when a handful of axemen and cats several turns earlier would have overrun the AI archers. Remember, you can always reinforce your stack after you've started taking cities, and each city you take lowers your enemy's science output. On that note, even when you've got your dream attack force, don't just turn your cities back to building and hope for that stack to carry the war. A steady stream of reinforcements can make a big difference, and even allow you to keep the war going from one conquest window into the next, in some cases. When you find your window closing, and another one isn't imminent, go ahead and ask for peace, keeping whatever gains you've made, and possibly getting a tech boost in the bargain. You've most likely both increased your ability to get to the next window sooner and hampered your enemy's ability to close it.

If building up an army is causing you to fall behind dramatically, no matter at what point you do it, you may also not be specializing your cities properly. Focus some cities on units, even in peacetime, and others on gold and/or science, even in wartime, barring emergencies, and you should be able to wage war and keep up your tech pace simultaneously. That's not to say the war won't have costs, but to say they're manageable.

[TieSolo]

Wow, thanks for all the great advice, I wil definitely utilize it.

[trev]

Often if they have a city that is not on a hill, then keep their defences at zero, let them reinforce the city and kill off the defenders one by one with highly promoted swordsmen, ideally you are on a forest outside of the city with suitably promoted axemen, maces, pikes, maybe elephant for defence, and have CR3 swords, maces for assault, promoted to CR3 your odds are often 80% or better, great to weaken his army over time to nothing, and then quickmarch through his other cities when that is done.
To get a good supply of CR3 swords, maces, place some MI's in you best hammer city for bonus experience points, personally almost all GG's become Military instructors in my games, usually in a good hammer capital, in a game with long wars I have had units being built in that city with 29 experience points, so many MI's sit there, with those weapons, you can roll even more advanced AI's

[rah]

Originally posted by trev
Often if they have a city that is not on a hill, then keep their defences at zero, let them reinforce the city and kill off the defenders one by one with highly promoted swordsmen,

Yes a very usefull strat.

A similar method quite effective later or in CONTINENT games. If you have a lot of vet units with amphib. (Ragner is fun for this one) Have your fleet just sit off the coast from a civ on the continent that you need to bust next to a city on a non hill square and let the AI continue to reinforce the city why your units just keep picking them off reasonably safely from the transport.
Once the AI runs out of all it's extra units, you can establish your beach head in relative safety.

[Solomwi]

Originally posted by rah


Yes a very usefull strat.

A similar method quite effective later or in CONTINENT games. If you have a lot of vet units with amphib. (Ragner is fun for this one) Have your fleet just sit off the coast from a civ on the continent that you need to bust next to a city on a non hill square and let the AI continue to reinforce the city why your units just keep picking them off reasonably safely from the transport.
Once the AI runs out of all it's extra units, you can establish your beach head in relative safety.

I love doing that. I'll also simply keep killing his units, never intending to take the first city. That's usually the case where I can declare with relative impunity, and don't really see a net benefit to taking the land. My only goal for the war is usually promoting units and generating GGs, along with a bit of fun, but I've also done this to prepare the ground, so to speak, until my main body of troops gets disengaged from another war and turns to this one.

[Theben]

A variant of that tactic I've used had a large SOD from an enemy take a vassal city, then a portion would set out to a new target while the rest would stay. I'd hit the new, smaller stack with field units and attack the newly captured city with City Raiders while still in revolt. I'd wipe out both stacks and then return the city back to the vassal... he gets 2 free defenders, I get a relation bonus and get to concentrate forces again with minimal losses, and the enemy is low on units and has lost all freedom of movement he had after the cultural border of my vassal is re-established.

As for bombarding cities, after Engineering give your trebs city raider but keep building cats bombard/accuracy I. 3 Cats will wipe out all but the hardiest defences in 2 turns and trebs with CR III attack cities with a strength of 11. Chances are you'll only lose 1-3 trebs and maybe 1 other unit in a heavy assault.

[ZEE]

Alternatively you could build a SOD yourself like so:


A TRIPLE STACK OF DOOM AKA A MAN'S-STACK


(I call it that because there are 3 rows of units at the bottom bar.)

Also moar enemies and larger maps will result on them being all smaller in size, and wars abound.

AKA A MAN'S GAME

(this was earlier back before i smashed Mehmed for acting trill by attacking my homie Jao. 2 civs already dead ATM of the pic above. Noble Level, Solver Patch.)

So thats my advice. Pressing the alt-key on a unit in the city build screen will have it continue to build that unit, so you wont be tempted to waste time building things in cities that will make little difference. Before you know it you will have a MAN STACK like AAHZ does. Go to the city lists page (the house button below the clock in upper right), sort your cities by production, and have the better cities be the ones to pump out cheap libraries and markets to fund your giant army.

[TieSolo]

now THAT'S an army! This is what I need.

[Theben]

Bah. A mere 59 units. Go play some more with yer tiddly-winks.

[rah]

Or at least be using them to attack some one.

If you have stacks that large and not using them, you're just wasting money.

[jnh140]

Originally posted by trev
in a game with long wars I have had units being built in that city with 29 experience points, so many MI's sit there, with those weapons, you can roll even more advanced AI's

Theres nothing like stealth bombers with evasion for just ruining someone's day. I didn't even know some of these promotions existed until I got a gazillion instructors deposited on a city. I have basically quit adding generals to units.

[Blaupanzer]

Originally posted by jnh140
Theres nothing like stealth bombers with evasion for just ruining someone's day. I didn't even know some of these promotions existed until I got a gazillion instructors deposited on a city. I have basically quit adding generals to units.

I do my first general on a unit to qualify to build West Point. Usually add him to one of those units that got to 10 from the barbs but is now 1 or 2 promotions behind. With the GG he gets updated for free. That unit stays home to participate in home defense if wires get crossed. Otherwise, home defense is unnecessary. All the rest of the GGs go to MIs, or once in a great while, an academy. I do the academy if I have a second unit-producing city; the first unit city gets Heroic Epic.

[jnh140]

yes, modern armor every turn is a beautiful thing.