Unique bonuses for religions in Civ 4

[Sovereign]

Hi, all.

I was thinking of making each of the 7 religion's buildings a little different. For example, I want to have Temple of religion X give +1 gold, while a temple of religion Y gives +1 hammer, and religion Z gives +1 science point.

I was wondering what you guys would think would be a good reflection on the 7 religions in-game. Here's my ideas:

Jewish Temple: +1 gold (good with finances)

Christian Temple: +2 experience for units (crusades and constant warfare in Europe)

Islam Temple: +1 science beaker (Muslims were good scientists during Middle Ages)

Confucian Temple: -10% maintainence (Confucianism is good with laws and reforms)

Hindu Temple: +1 culture (diversity in Hinduism with multiple types of Hinduism)

Taoist Temple: +1 health (commune with nature and enviroment)

Buddhist Temple: +1 happy face (Karma and seeking enlightment)

If any of you guys have any suggestions on revising that list to make religious buildings more unique and distinct from each other, please do so. Keep in mind this is a tentative list, not a final list. I just put what I thought would be appopriate for these religions, and I'm fully open to revisions. I figure this would provide even more incentive and strategy with religions to seek out a particular religion or spread one religion while curtailing another. Please share your ideas and thoughts on this.

[Unimatrix11]

If these bonuses are meant to be additional to the original ones, i fear, it might unbalance the game towards the religious path. Already, as it is now, if you manage to build the AP, the university of sankore and the spiral minarette, temples are huge. Then add the shrines - and the specialists.

I´d also say, that one happy face is generally (except is some rather rare circumstances) more valueable than 1 gold, for example.

As a proposal, i´d shift the uniqueness to the monastaries instead, and leave the temples as is. The muslim monastary would remian as is in the game, as well, (EDIT: minus the culture) and the jewish one would provide +10% gold (instead of 1gp), and the Hindu one would give +2 culture. Rest as is listed above.

[Tattila the Hun]

Christian Temple should give +1 hammer, because Jebus was a carpenter by profession.

[lord of the mark]

Re: Unique bonuses for religions in Civ 4

Originally posted by Sovereign
Hi, all.

I was thinking of making each of the 7 religion's buildings a little different. For example, I want to have Temple of religion X give +1 gold, while a temple of religion Y gives +1 hammer, and religion Z gives +1 science point.

I was wondering what you guys would think would be a good reflection on the 7 religions in-game. Here's my ideas:

Jewish Temple: +1 gold (good with finances)

Good example of why Firaxis didnt touch this. Me, I suggest giving Judaism a military advantage (maccabees, Israelis, etc) or a happy advantage (kabbalah, dancing hasidim, lovely holidays, Jewish comedians, etc)

[Blaupanzer]

Agree that this is why Firaxis didn't touch this. On LOTM's point, Jewish comedians might actually be a minus. I suggest these bonuses attach to cathedrals instead, making the player work for the privelege. Also, culture, science, gold, and happiness bonuses at + 2.

[Unimatrix11]

Ideally, the traits of the religions would be attached randomly at game start - just to mix it up for PC. I think to have one of the buildings be unique would be a nice touch. The monastary is very suited for this alteration IMO.

EDIT (Crosspost, Blaupanzer): Well, the cathedrals are already very strong - indeed they are needed for the cultural victory. So you cant really add to them, nor take away their existing bonus, wihtout worrying about the total game-balance (as opposed to just balancing the variants of the building among each other) and such...

[Sovereign]

Okay, thanks for the ideas guys. Keep them coming!

I wanted to make each religion unique, instead of all of them being practically the same. I mean, as it stands, there's no difference between the 7 religions except their name, icon, and tech needed to discover them. In other words, in Civ 4, Christianity is just a "palette swap" of, say, Taoism or Buddhism.

Thats why I thought up of this idea so to make each religion a bit unique in their own way. Kinda like how Civ 3 + 4 made each civilization / nation more unique and distinct to each other compared to Civ 1 + 2 (plus leaderheads and stuff)

[snoopy369]

Actually, there is one difference - the cathedral bonus resource.

There's a reason of course why they're basically identical (is better for gameplay); but there are definitely mods out there that modify the religious aspects. Look around.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Sovereign
Okay, thanks for

Thats why I thought up of this idea so to make each religion a bit unique in their own way. Kinda like how Civ 3 + 4 made each civilization / nation more unique and distinct to each other compared to Civ 1 + 2 (plus leaderheads and stuff)

Oh dear we're not going to have THAT discussion again, are we? I remember debating racialism and civ specific attributes back in what was it, 2001? I like that in Civ4 traits go with LEADERS rather than with civs. Its still a bit uncivish, IMHO, but I can live with it.

Hey, maybe that would work for religions. Give each religion two or more alternate founders (Jesus OR St Paul, Moses OR Hillel, etc) and it gets different traits depending on which it is.

[MoonWolf]

I think it's best to leave as it is to avoid step to make some real religious debates. Allright, I don't care despite my religion, but someone will. A mod with this though, will be nice

I agree on the bonuses you have found for each religion though. Maybe Christianity should have +1 XP only and Islam +2 breakers. +2 XP is a bit too powerful as it will make land units lvl 2 when paired with a barracks. That can make a huge difference. +2 breakers is to equal +2 gold.

A sidethought: these bonuses seems quite fair from a historical point of view, but can we relate them to religion or cultural behaviour? Was the arabs smart cause of their religious way of thinking or because the society encouraged new ways of thinking? Did the crusades happen because of Christianity or because Europeans were warmongerish (think of all the wars in Europe 1000 years ago even they where all Christians)?

[Blaupanzer]

And Moonwolf touches the third rail of all history games! Discussions as to which culture/civ is better or worse and why or which belief system encourages positive or negative behavior cannot possibly be resolved in an international forum. A lot of shouting, finger-pointing, anguish, and childish behavior can be set loose, but post Nationalism, no reasonable discussion can resolve fundamental disagreements on these type of issues. So let's not go there.

Are Europeans/Arabs more warlike, are native americans more ecologically aware, are Chinese/Russians more xenophobic, are Mongols/Germans more brutal? How do you expect the natives of such places to respond -- most likely, but not always, defensively. Some folks are proud of aspects of their cultural heritage that others, even in those same cultures, condemn. Let it go.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Oh dear we're not going to have THAT discussion again, are we? I remember debating racialism and civ specific attributes back in what was it, 2001? I like that in Civ4 traits go with LEADERS rather than with civs. Its still a bit uncivish, IMHO, but I can live with it.

Hey, maybe that would work for religions. Give each religion two or more alternate founders (Jesus OR St Paul, Moses OR Hillel, etc) and it gets different traits depending on which it is.

[Sovereign]

I didn't intend for this to become a religious debate about which religion is good or bad. I merely wanted to discuss and figure out which bonuses would go best with each religion.

As you guys may recall from Civ 1 and 2, all the civ's were identical with the exception of city names, leaders, and flag colors. All their units and rules were the exact same, so I'd be playing the exact same style, no matter what civ I played.

Fast forward to Civ 3 and 4, where civ's actually got more unique and distinct from each other. Things like traits such as industralism, philosophical, financial, etc. plus civ's unique units and more fleshed out leaderheads.

Now I wanted to take this a step further. Look at the corporations in BTS. They are all different from each other with bonuses, so why not apply that to religions as well?

[snoopy369]

I think precisely because of the above discussion - because religion is a very touchy subject, and any 'bonuses' would inevitably hit upon stereotypes (like jewish people with money, for example). Corporations are much 'safer' because there is less associated feeling related to them.

[wodan11]

Sovereign: "I had the noblest of intentions!"

And then, everybody responded about the religion aspect.....