same old question: where should I settle?

[guermantes]

Hi,

My objective here is to expand Westwards towards the Ottomans and to claim that copper. I was thinking I would settle in the desert to be able to leverage all the available floodplains in the same city and make it into a production city with farms and mines. I am Willem with 2 culture per city so wherever I settle I can start mining the copper in 5 turns.

But neither the desert tile nor the hills tile to the South have fresh water.

Does that mean I can't build aqueducts and dikes in that city?

I don't like settling on resources (in this case I'll lose 4 hammers if I do so), and I don't know why the computer always recommends me to do just that. I haven't counted the food yet (I hate doing that because I always count wrong and have to do it 10 times) but perhaps I need that wheat to the East of the copper in order to be able to work the rest of the hills?

Where would you guys settle this city?

[Jaybe]

Aqueducts don't require fresh water (on the city tile, anyway ), but dikes do. If you are at all concerned about your dikes, I'd settle 2 tiles EAST of the copper! A third city 2 tiles WEST of the copper (wine & probably cows). Fourth location SE corner of the lake (3 floods, 3 hills).

I always prefer on-river locations, even though I've never used the Dutch. Ordinary levees are plenty strong for me.

[Diadem]

For Levee's you need river locations. For Dutch Dikes however the requirements are slightly different. Coastal cities can always build them. I'm not sure about lakes. They benefit from levee's, but not sure if you can build them with only a lake.

Anyway Jaybe's suggested locations are quite good I think. But I wouldn't found SE of the lake, but rather E. You'll have a coast then, allowing you extra buildings and ships. Also you'll have less overlap with other cities. You'll miss the whale though.

I think the best option though is to found NE of the copper, N of the little lake and also EEESE of the copper, which is two S of the cows. Found that one ASAP before the Ottomans gobble it up. I can't really see the terrain there, but i think that's the best spot around those cows. With such a setup you have river or coast on all your cities and you can seemlessly integrate the Ottoman capital into your empire once you send your axes against him

Two two suggested locations you give are, imho, not good spots. Not because they are bad locations for a city, but because they make placing other cities very awkward. Finally founding on the copper itself as the game suggests is actually not so bad. It's only a desert copper, so you don't loose too much, and you actually gain a 2 prod city tile, which is a nice boon early on.

[Theben]

It depends on where you plan to expand in all. I see 3 good starting locations:
1W of the southern red circle. You get cows, copper, and 2 flood plains (you won't get fresh water or a dike, but those aren't gamebreakers).
Hill 1W of the southern gold. You might want that as your 2nd city, definitely 3rd. Lots of river, 2 gold and a rice. Good commerce potential.
Plains hill 1W of computer circle on coast. 1 whale, 1 fish/crab/clam, fresh water, and a flood plain, some hills and on a plains hill, good defensive/offensive position vs. the Ottomans.

Another descent spot woud be the forest 1N of the elephant in the SW. Coastal and nets 2 luxuries. Low food and shield output, so hopefully some fish in the waters. Don't cut any forests there if you do, and then backup the "copper" city onto the southern hill. You might want to put it there anyways since early cities sometimes need that extra DEF against barbs, but with the Ottomans so close I think any barbs you face will come from others directions.

[Theben]

Actually settling on the elephant might be better.

[Colm]

Originally posted by Theben
1W of the southern red circle. You get cows, copper, and 2 flood plains (you won't get fresh water or a dike, but those aren't gamebreakers).
Hill 1W of the southern gold. You might want that as your 2nd city, definitely 3rd. Lots of river, 2 gold and a rice. Good commerce potential.

Yes that would be my choice as well. The first will take over space from the other civ and will grow fast with those flood plains.
The other spot, with the 2 gold mines and rice can grow into a money making machine. I would choose that as your 3rd city.

[Diadem]

The gold settlin depends on what terrain there is east of the gold.

For now I'm sticking to my sugestions. Gives the most space for good cities. If you settle one west of the southern red circle then your city near the ivory/wine won't have any food resources, which is very bad for an early game city. It needs that cow. So your copper city needs that rice.

Where exactly is an intersting question. Depends a bit on parts of the terrain we can't see. NE of the copper, on the copper itself, SE of the copper, or 2E of the copper are all possibilities. With what I can see of the map right now I'd say NE of the copper, because that gives you the best coverage of the map - optimal space for other cities without too many wasted tiles in between.

[Theben]

It also depends on if there are any sea resources in the SW. If not, then the area isn't that good anyway, 1 plains cow won't save it. It's all about netting 2 luxuries.

[Krill]

74 of the copper, get two more workers, then a settler for the rice/gold (military/granary interspersed in there for growth). Then kill.

[joncnunn]

Dutch Dikes only need either or River / Coast and will benifit both the river and water tiles either way.

Aquaducts don't need river; your just losing the free +2 health from not being on the river (and if non-coastal also the Dike)

I have a feeling that the tile NW of Cooper is non-river, and even if it were fresh water I'd still found Cooper city N of Cooper to also take in the Rice.

I would probably found the northern city one tile west of the blue circle to reduce the chance of the AI trying to squeese a town between it and his current one.

[snoopy369]

I'd settle 9 of the copper, or 74 from the copper, one or the other depending on how much you want to aggress the Ottomans. 9 will be a better early city (immediate access to a lot of food), while 74 is better for expanding your territory (but requires cultural expansion).

Your third city, by the way, should be on the plains hill one W (4) of the other blue circle... that's a great city spot (and you choose the plains hill for the bonus city tile hammer, because you lose a hammer net by settling on the grass hill).

FYI, it's easier if when you post these before the screenshot you hit alt-r (show resources) and alt-g (show grid) - makes it easier for us to see everything

[Krill]

Also, save! the 4000BC autosave if you have it...

[rah]

I NE of the copper for the flood plains, rice and copper
and 1 N of the ele, cows, coast, wine.
and 1 N of the small lake to grab the two sea sources and claim the territory,
and then 1 near the gold depending on what's there.

[joncnunn]

Bottom line Guermantes, is it's up to you to decide, there are almost as many opinions as to where to settle as posters in this thread.

[mkorin]

Hill Sw of copper, Hill for defense, rice and river bottom for food, multiple hills for mines and forests for lumber. Plus, your fat cross doesn't intersect with your other city.

Mike