Barbarians rule?

[Diadem]

Putting down several deity AIs with good starting locations goes a long way towards making the great wall unreachable Anyway if you want to play a game like this, you shouldn't build the great wall anyway. Modding it out would be best I guess.

Originally posted by jbp26

was this a scenario? i could have sworn it was a realms beyond game.

I think it was just a savegame. But it's so long ago, I don't quite remember. It was for vanilla civ though, I do know that. Which is a shamem playing such a game with great generals etc would be awesome. Anyway it could have been a scenario, there may have been some custom rulemods, I don't know.

I do know it was awesome. And HARD.

[snoopy369]

Technically 'scenario' simply means a game that is set up ahead of time, it does not require any mods at all... so as long as it was modified ahead of time in any way (such as in worldbuilder setting up the map) it is a 'scenario'.

[Diadem]

Then it most definitely was a scenario

[The Priest]

Could be a mod. No Great Wall but you'll get XP and Great General points as normal.

Ah yes that is a good idea. For this game I just went into the XML and made the great wall go obsolete with Masonry, an easy change to make it unbuildable. (It wouldn't have worked to just not build it, because if other civs built it, it woudl give them too much of an advantage over me.)

What I didn't think of doing was changing it to allow XP and GG points. I don't know how to do that, though i guess a quick search of XML would give it. I think that would be fair, since barbs are the main enemies.

[jbp26]

Originally posted by The Priest


Ah yes that is a good idea. For this game I just went into the XML and made the great wall go obsolete with Masonry, an easy change to make it unbuildable. (It wouldn't have worked to just not build it, because if other civs built it, it woudl give them too much of an advantage over me.)

What I didn't think of doing was changing it to allow XP and GG points. I don't know how to do that, though i guess a quick search of XML would give it. I think that would be fair, since barbs are the main enemies.

that would definitely make the scenario way more interesting. great idea.

[MoonWolf]

Let me look up how to have barbs give GG and XP... I've asked it here before

[MoonWolf]

And.... Voilà!

I quote Snoopy's solution in there:

Originally posted by snoopy369
Hmm, it's not directly in python ... here's where it's defined in the code:

if (isDead() || pDefender->isDead())
				{
					if (isDead())
					{
						iExperience = defenseXPValue();
						iExperience = ((iExperience * iAttackerStrength) / iDefenderStrength);
						iExperience = range(iExperience, GC.getDefineINT("MIN_EXPERIENCE_PER_COMBAT"), GC.getDefineINT("MAX_EXPERIENCE_PER_COMBAT"));
						pDefender->changeExperience(iExperience, maxXPValue(), !isBarbarian(), pPlot->getOwnerINLINE() == pDefender->getOwnerINLINE());
					}
					else
					{
						iExperience = pDefender->attackXPValue();
						iExperience = ((iExperience * iDefenderStrength) / iAttackerStrength);
						iExperience = range(iExperience, GC.getDefineINT("MIN_EXPERIENCE_PER_COMBAT"), GC.getDefineINT("MAX_EXPERIENCE_PER_COMBAT"));
						changeExperience(iExperience, pDefender->maxXPValue(), !pDefender->isBarbarian(), pPlot->getOwnerINLINE() == getOwnerINLINE());
					}

					break;
				}

The !pDefender->isBarbarian() returns FALSE if it's a barbarian and TRUE if it's not; this determines if XP is given to the GG or not.

If you were to change the !pDefender->isBarbarian (and the !isBarbarian) to TRUE or 1 or whatever, it would always give GG experience. This is separate from the max XP issue which is easier to fix in the XML. As a side note, it looks like setting the max XP to -1 will make it maxint automatically, according to setExperience() later on.

The changeExperience is exposed to python:

 CyUnit::changeExperience(int iChange, int iMax, bool bFromCombat, bool bInBorders)

This gives a unit experience iChange, up to a maximum xp level iMax, and applies that to the GG experience if bFromCombat is true, and applies the Great Wall bonus if bInBorders is true (or any other Border related bonus to GG points).

More directly, you have:

void CyPlayer::changeCombatExperience(int iChange)
void CyPlayer::setCombatExperience(int iExperience)

The first adds (or subtracts!) GG experience points by amount iChange (but does not affect a particular unit); the latter sets the XP to a particular level. This is used extensively in the Genghis Khan mod in Warlords if you want to see some examples of how it's used, just search for it in the events file in that mod's python folder.

I haven't tried it myself yet even I should have a looong time ago

[The Priest]

Thanks for that, I will try to get it to work.

The next question though is are barbarians limited in the units they use, in particular do they develop later, gunpowder units? I have a feeling they don't - in which case does anyone know if this is changeable?

Also I know how to change the settings for the number of barbarians which appear per unowned tile, but is there any way of changing this as time goes on. The problem in getting this 'scenario' working really well is making it possible at the beginning but still challenging later.

[jbp26]

i have seen barbarian units up to riflemen. im not sure if they go higher than that.

[snoopy369]

They are limited in the units, definitely; it is set in the XML files (in the UNITCLASS file). They have to be set to be allowed as barbs, and they have to be set to a particular AI option (I don't recall which).

Back before Barbs were allowed Spearmen, I modded spearmen in as barbs, but it's been a while...

[Jaybe]

Barb units are restricted in the file Civilizations/CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml.
The last civ is CIVILIZATION_BARBARIAN, and in it there are lists of all the buildings and units that barbs cannot build.

(I cannot find any barb reference in the CIV4UnitClassInfos.xml file)

[Heresson]

I've been playing terra map. New World was one great barbarian empire. I've tried to settle there, I landed with a settler and like 5 infantry. And I was utterly crashed. Only a dozens years later on I've launched a great invasion, capturing entire southern barbarian continent. Strangely, my enemies seemed to settle there without any problem, but I was under constant barbarian attack - single units and entire armies. So yes, they can be dangerous.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Barb units are restricted in the file Civilizations/CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml.
The last civ is CIVILIZATION_BARBARIAN, and in it there are lists of all the buildings and units that barbs cannot build.

(I cannot find any barb reference in the CIV4UnitClassInfos.xml file)

The AI settings are definitely relevant. I don't remember off the top of my head which one(s) they must have, but there is an AI setting or settings they must have in order to be a barb unit.

[Tokyo Sexwale]

Originally posted by jbp26


was this a scenario? i could have sworn it was a realms beyond game.

This one?

http://realmsbeyond.net/civ/c4tourney/epic4.html

Actually, I remember seeing this and thinking about playing it, but never did. Perhaps I will give it a try now.

[Diadem]

Yep that's the one. Awesome game. I advice founding on the gold, by the way. Anyway this is a vanilla game, which is the only problem with that scenario.

Would be great to see a BtS version of it. With GW disabled, and maybe with no experience cap for units fighting barbs. Oh that would be nice!