How does Vassalage work

[forwax]

Hi all, my first post in a real long time if not my first.

I was just wandering how does vassalage work, because I don't see the option anywhere on the diplomatic screen even if I'm the most advance (industrial era and all others in medieval or touching industrial) ?

Do I have to have a wonder ? a particuliar civic ? being the most powerfull (army size) ? Do I have to wait that the civ I'm in war with capitulate ? do I have to take 50+% of is city ? the list goes on...

Thx for the reply

forwax

[Unimatrix11]

If an AI-civ will allow you to vassalize it, depends to a large extent on the Civ and its leader. The Germans for example are pretty easily vassalized (which is so non-sense historically but whatever). I had Frederick (!) come to me once in mid-peace asking me to vassalize him.

On the other hand, there are civs and leaders, who will only be ready to become your vassals once you have almost destroyed them, if at all.

In general peaceful vassalization is the exception - usually you will have to fight a war to vassalite someone. Though there are two ways this can happen:

1. Directly: You attack someone and when he had enough, the vassalite option will show up during peace-negotiations.

2. Indirectly: Someone else is at war with a civ, that you have good diplomatic standings with, and beats it up badly. It might happen, that this civ will accept vassalization by you, in order not to get destroyed by the civ it was attacked by. This will lead to immediate war between you and that civ tho. Note, that this can also happen on you, meaning if you crush a weak enemy, it may happen that it turns to a stronger friend to help it out, offering it vassalage.

[joncnunn]

The peaceful form is when for whatever reason that civ lost the peaceful expansion portion of the game so badly it couldn't build a decent enough army to even think about attacking it's neighbors that are choking it in.

In that case, it might offer to make itself a vasal of someone it has really good relations with which has both a much larger empire and a biger army that it does just to deter others from thinking about attacking him.

[Blaupanzer]

Once you get the tech feudalism, permitting vassalage, a line in the trade element of the screen when you are talking to a given leader (left hand side) will say if he/she will vassal or capitulate. Usually this will be redded out meaning "no, won't consider it." If this line is white consider if you want to deal with this civ on that level. If they come to you, it is almost always to draw you into a war or to avoid an imminent attack. That imminent attack may happen anyway, if the AI combination involved thinks themselves stronger than you or sees you as too far away to help.

One way to avoid the automatic war is to approach the current attacker, and offer them something to make peace with your future client. If that works, you can then vassalize with impunity.

[Diadem]

Originally posted by Unimatrix11
2. Indirectly: Someone else is at war with a civ, that you have good diplomatic standings with, and beats it up badly. It might happen, that this civ will accept vassalization by you, in order not to get destroyed by the civ it was attacked by. This will lead to immediate war between you and that civ tho. Note, that this can also happen on you, meaning if you crush a weak enemy, it may happen that it turns to a stronger friend to help it out, offering it vassalage.

The stupid and totally unfair part here is that:

- If a civ is at war with another, and you vassalize it, you're automatically at war with the aggressor.

- If you're attacking a civ, and it becomes a vassal of another, you're automatically at peace!

That's so frustrating. A very strange and stupid design error.

[Blaupanzer]

Originally posted by Diadem
- If a civ is at war with another, and you vassalize it, you're automatically at war with the aggressor.

- If you're attacking a civ, and it becomes a vassal of another, you're automatically at peace!

That's so frustrating. A very strange and stupid design error.

Is it an error? Think of you and another warlord beating up on a third party. If the third party capitulates to either of you attackers, the new feudal lord is going to tell the other to "back off," stop tearing up his vassal's lands, make peace. If the 3rd party vassals to anyone else, you are both going to say, "alright you asked for it, get away from our conquering hordes, or we will take you out too." What part of that logic, used commonly throughout Eurasian history, is incorrect? Frustrating? Yes. Unfair and stupid? Don't think so.

[snoopy369]

It was most definitely not a design error- they've made modifications since BtS 3.0 after all to refine this. The problem was that it's MORE unfair to force you at war with an AI civ who is powerful, when you're picking on some little guy (or more harmful, anyway), while if you choose to vassalize another civ who's in a war, you know ahead of time the risk you're taking. This is one of those situations where AI vs Human SHOULD have different rules.

[mrp]

I turn vassals off too annoying but I do use the Vassalage civic. Mainly because you would attack someone then someone else would attack them then they would vassal that and I don't vassal I conquer