Unchop?

[snoopy369]

That should not be possible, so you probably just didn't actually develop it, and thought you had?

I can't imagine forest growing on incense, anyway. That's usually on desert...

[Theben]

I don't think I've ever seen incense on anything but desert.

Deer maybe, IF he had a road on it. Or perhaps it was camped and later pillaged by invaders/barbs or an event destroyed it.

Camps don't destroy forests/jungle anyway.

[mrp]

Don't chop any forest in tundra lands. But the stupid AI will chop it. Me I chop any forest next to a river then they become farms or watermills. I will leave some forest for future lumber mills
Why sacrifice tomorrows production for todays gain. I mostly chop for production outside the city limits and I don't make any preserve forest

[Unimatrix11]

Originally posted by mrp

[...] Why sacrifice tomorrows production for todays gain [?...]

Because today´s gain is tomorrow´s production.

[ben04]

There are few things one should know when chopping:

• Hammer modifiers also apply to chopped hammers. This means that if decided to chop be sure to have selected the building or unit with the highest hammer modifiers as you'll get the most hammers.
• A late game forest with lumber camp produces the same as a hill with a mine (and additionally a bit of health). This is especially important in hammer low cities.
• Chopping provides a lot of hammers in a short amount of time. This is useful to quickly make use of new technologies, especially to get a wonder if someone started building it before you did.
• Mathematics improves the number of hammers provided by a chop.
• Forests have pretty high defense modifier of +50%.
• Forests can grow back on unimproved fields adjacent to a forest. Don't count on it however. They will never grow where you want them and never in the quantity you want.
• Forests outside of the city range only provide a defense bonus. If it isn't needed feel free to chop.
• A city with lots of forests and/or jungles is a good candidate for the natural reserve national wonder. It makes a very good late game great person pump but it does come very late and the city wont be very productive up to then.
• If you decide to run the Greenpeace civic then you'll need a lot of forests and/or jungles. (I don't recommend using it.)

[Blaupanzer]

Also, forest/jungles right next to your city make a great place for the bad guys to go to avoid any potential counterattack. Most (all?) of these should be cleared to avoid a stack attractor so close to your citizens. If you hold off until mathematics, you will be digging out a lot of barbs for the first 2K years.

[snoopy369]

Except with settler/worker and their respective traits, hammer modifiers aren't important wrt chopping. You'll get the modifier anyway, so it really doesn't help you additionally. (Settler/Worker this is true, however; if you are EXP, then you should try to chop/slave workers, because you get a bigger bonus to the chop/slave than to normal production, since the bonus doesn't apply to food).

[Blaupanzer]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Except with settler/worker and their respective traits, hammer modifiers aren't important wrt chopping. You'll get the modifier anyway, so it really doesn't help you additionally. (Settler/Worker this is true, however; if you are EXP, then you should try to chop/slave workers, because you get a bigger bonus to the chop/slave than to normal production, since the bonus doesn't apply to food).

What means "bigger bonus ... since the bonus doesn't apply to food?" Does "chop/slave" mean burn citizens not trees, or is this shorthand for some combination of the two? Possibly, the second answer will also encumber the first.

[Supr49er]

Originally posted by Theben
I don't think I've ever seen incense on anything but desert.

Deer maybe, IF he had a road on it. Or perhaps it was camped and later pillaged by invaders/barbs or an event destroyed it.

Camps don't destroy forests/jungle anyway.

I seem to recall getting incense on a plains tile once.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer


What means "bigger bonus ... since the bonus doesn't apply to food?" Does "chop/slave" mean burn citizens not trees, or is this shorthand for some combination of the two? Possibly, the second answer will also encumber the first.

Chop/Slave means (Chop Forest) or (Poprush with Citizens). Bigger bonus refers to the fact that the EXP +25% for workers (or IMP's modifier for settlers) only affects hammers, and not food added to hammers, but DOES affect chopping (and slaving). So, for example:

CITY A:
+5f +8h/turn, EXP, producing a worker
gets
+5f +10h -> +15fh/turn

CITY B:
+0f +13h/turn, EXP, producing a worker
gets
+0f +16.25h/turn

CITY C:
+5f +8h/turn, EXP, producing a worker
Chops one forest post-mathematics, after the first turn of production.
+15h/turn (as discussed above) + (30+.25*30 = 37.5)h

Basically, all other things equal, it was better for City C to chop that forest producing a worker than producing anything else (regardless of bonus to other things like marble to a wonder), because it got a 25% bonus on the chop, while it got only around 2/13 or about 15% bonus when producing the worker normally (because food is not bonussed). On the other hand, when producing a wonder, even at +100%, it doesn't actually help it any more - if you pretend the +100% is really a -50% of cost (so reduce the 1000 hammers to 500 needed to produce it), the forest reduces the amount of time necessary to produce the wonder by the same amount as 30h worth of production, which is not special (compared to if it got a 50% bonus, or a 200%). The only time it's something extra is if it is replacing something that is NOT bonussed, like in this case, food.

[Blaupanzer]

How beneficial is chopping forests ouside the BFC? How about if the forest is outside your cultural border, but your city is the closest to that tile?

[rah]

You just get fewer hammers for it. I'll always clear forest outside my bfc if it's due to be claimed culturaly by the AI. The farther out you get the less you get. I'll finish chopping and see x city got 4 hammers. But it's four more hammers than I would have gotten and now the ai can't chop it.

Your closest city gets it, no matter how close an AI city is.

[johnmcd]

Originally posted by Supr49er


I seem to recall getting incense on a plains tile once.

You get incense on a plain if it is immediately beside your starting position. I've never seen a forested incense plain though.

[Jaybe]

Outside-border chop yield is 1/2 of inside-borders.