Move From Starting Position?

[Nikomakkos]

Originally posted by Supr49er
Every time I see posted starting locations, it makes me want to play. I love the early game strategies and exploration.

Haha, that's so true.

[Theben]

Originally posted by snoopy369
I'd be surprised if that plains hill did not have one of the early starting resources...

I thought that too. But I also figured by the time he gets there he'll have settlers available to grab them.

I say coast & mine gems ASAP, that's IIRC 3 for the city square and 7? for the FIN mined gems next to river. He should have a good start.

[ColdPhoenix]

Originally posted by snoopy369
I'd settle in place. There will be plenty of spots for coastal cities, and the starting location often has bonus surprise resources you can't see (ie, copper/iron/etc.) I'd be surprised if that plains hill did not have one of the early starting resources...

I'd say it's 50/50 there's copper or iron on that hill. It's as likely to be aluminium or coal.

Tough choice on the start but I'd stick where you are. Free irrigation for the corn, and I'd cottage the dye in the big cross. Lots of commerce there, and decent food and hammers. A great starting position.

[Nikomakkos]

The free irrigation for the wheat is an interesting point, I hadn't thought of that. But I think the 3g on the city square far outweighs that though. Damnit, I wish I had that starting position and was playing right now!

[Blaupanzer]

I would settle as is, and explore up river for the next city to establish communications. Plenty of time to explore and settle the coast when roads are available.

[Theben]

I don't think cities spread irrigation until Civil Service.

[ColdPhoenix]

That's right but the city'll get a little boost then. It would be nice if there's another food special in one of the hidden squares but even if there's not it's almost all grassland so there's enough food.

[johnmcd]

I'd move to the dye on the coast on the East of the river.

[Blaupanzer]

john, if he does that he loses the corn but gains an additional dye. Not sure it's worth the food loss for the capitol. He also loses some good mine sites. On the first city, I go for the food and hammers and garner the money as a necessary but lesser priority. Interesting we have so many theories.

[guermantes]

There is forest between the settler and the coast. Does not not mean 2 turns for moving?

[okblacke]

OK, let me explain the situation.

A little background: I'm a long time Civ player but until Civ 3, I sucked at it. (I mean, really, play at the lowest level, turtle up until you get tanks, then steamroll everyone else. How lame is that?) But Civ 3 kind of turned things around a bit to where I could even play on noble. (I could even win on noble or higher on a duel or small map.)

Basically, the huge imbalance created by the resources forced me to get aggressive and changed my game up. I loved Civ 3. I understand that around here, that's sort of like loving Van Halen when Sammy Hagar was singing lead or something. But there it is.

Anyway, I'm playing on some wussy level (Warlord), but I've decided to make my stand on this map. I don't know why, exactly, but I have. I think because I can usually pretty easily win on Warlord going cultural. (In fact, however I start a game, it usually ends as a cultural victory.) But in this case, directly to my southeast is Montezuma.

And he kicks my ass. I've run this map 4-5 times figuring it should be pretty easy, but I just don't have the chops to balance the early military. (Usually, I neglect military until someone attacks, then I start pumping out units and cutting back on research till everything's upgraded.)

Other info: To the north is Qin. And somewhere to the south are Justinian and Huyana. I'm not sure if we're on continents or pangaea or what. It's a fractal map with 6 opponents (random size).

That picture is after the warrior has moved.

Those of you guessing the hill has bronze or iron are wrong. In fact, that's part of my problem. I don't have bronze, iron or horses. I do have ivory, so I beelined for...elephants...uh...construction? and that allowed me to hold off Monty. But I still feel like I'm losing.

I'll post an updated picture. But my plan is to keep playing this map until I can really beat it.

Consider this a plea for assistance out of lameness.

[okblacke]

OK, so, answering everyone's questions:
[list=1][*]It's two turns, not one, to move to the coast.[*]The map is "all I know"; I've already moved the warrior.[*]I know a lot more because I've played this opening half-a-dozen times by now.[*]There's no seafood.[*]I can post the save if some of you want to play it. I learned a lot from Civ 3 "walkthroughs". (I learned, for example, exactly how hard I wanted to play. Heh.)[*]The nearest metals are: bronze, seven tiles NE, near Qin's territory; iron, I believe is sitting somewhere below Monty.[*]Still don't know what kind of map.[/list=1]

I've made a bunch of mistakes here, as you can see:
[list=2][*]I've let the capital's worker wander off to work on other cities while the capital itself has pop working unimproved tiles.[*]I've moved too slowly turning out settlers. (So far I've always ended up with three cities on this map, even when, in this case, I actually popped a settler from a goody hut.)[*]I chased after the Apostolic palace and lost, resulting in a lot of cash but few troops.[*]I just plain don't have enough production.[*]I compulsively road things up. I'm not sure it matters much at this point, but I tend to road everywhere, then build the improvement.[*]I tried to take Texcoco knowing full well I didn't have the manpower.[*]Haven't scouted enough.[/list=2]

Now, things I think I've done right, or at least less wrongly.
[list=3][*]Hooked up the quarry and got Stonehenge. That's helped me fight culture creep from the Chinese.[*]Beelined war elephants. This has allowed me to take out any of Monty's troops that attack. He's trying to head up north to my bronze, which allows me to hit his Quecha with elephants the instant they step out of the forests. though I'm still too low on production to take his cities.[*]Beelined alphabet. Tech trading allowed me to trade with everyone NOT Monty.[*]Kept up enough with military to be at 3rd.[/list=3]

Even though I'm ahead on points, I feel like I've lost. I don't have the juice to actually take Monty's cities. It will be many turns before I do.

I'm beelining gunpowder which I'm not sure is a good thing.

I've never been good at placing workers or using specialists (except I have done the CS slingshot and used scientists; that's about my whole strategy).

Note that I'm super concerned about the game at this point; I plan to start again. What I'm really looking for is a confident enough start that I can get past the opening stage with a strong enough start to eliminate Monty as a serious threat, and not be too worried about Qin or Huyana.

I think, at Warlord, this should be pretty easy.

[Nikomakkos]

You do seem to have copper. Dude, start again, build the capital in the same place you chose, by the coast. Go for Bronze Working straight ahead and chop all those damn trees there! Chop a worker first, then have your two workers chop a settler. Settle by the copper we can see in the screen shot. Settle another city, build barracks and lots of axemen, at least a few. Get some more workers, preferably two for each city and now your set.

This is a really good start, you have everything you could wish for, even stones for wonders. And oh so many trees... You know they are primarily for chopping!

[Nikomakkos]

And where are all the towns? And why don't you have a city south from your capital? There are pigs there! And river! And trees! AAAAAHH!

Ok, sorry, I got a little hysterical. Start again and be a good boy, and then post another screen shot when you have that beautiful land properly settled.

[Nikomakkos]

Another good thing to do if you don't want the AI to attack you too much, is either be the same religion, or not have one. I see that you founded Judaism. I am of the opinion that time is better spent researching something else to get ahead. Like maybe Mathematics -> Construction if you want to get rid of Monty asap (which would be a good idea).