upgrade units?

[marshall06]

Still new to CIV4. Sorry for another rookie question.

When I tried upgrade my warrior to the next level, I see it costs more than 100 coins. Isn't it even cheaper to build a brand new units instead? Who will have that kinds of money to constantly upgrade all the existing units? I wonder how you guys normally handled the unit upgraded?

Appreciate any comments.

[snoopy369]

You'll have the money if you want to Think about it this way: An axeman costs 35 hammers. A warrior, 10 hammers. Difference: 25 hammers. Normally (in a normal speed game) it costs IIRC 80gp to promote it to axeman, or about 3gp/hammer. Not all that bad of an exchange really; particularly when you consider that you get to keep the promotions it has, and up to 10xp per unit...

I usually promote only certain types of units, ones i'm likely to have a lot of; such as crossbows -> grenadiers, or catapults->cannons. It's very effective, particularly if you have a bit of a tech lead, to drop your science percentage a few ticks just before getting the major military tech you need for promoting much of your army (such as if you have a bunch of crossbows, right before getting military science). Save up a few thousand GP, and promote them all at once, suddenly doubling your power and allowing an instant rampage

Otherwise you throw away all the hammers you put into the units (when it becomes effectively useless), which is a poor exchange; and the further into the game you get, the better a deal it is. You only lose 10h throwing away a warrior; you lose 60h throwing away a crossbow.

[rah]

Upgrading warriors is rare.
If through his early wandering he's gotten enough promos to warrent it. But this usually waits till I have more money.
GG addition but then it's free.
Caught with pants down and need an axeman.

Early in the game you won't have much money for this but as SNoopy points out, in the middle game you'll have a bit more.

[Lord Avalon]

Originally posted by rah
Caught with pants down and need an axeman.

[wodan11]

Given that any gold you have is generally that much LESS beakers you have, upgrading units IMO is usually not optimum strategy. Usually I just build anew. Only the tastiest units with key promotions get upgraded in most of my games.

[snoopy369]

Upgrading units is absolutely an optimal strategy in some situations, and in most games.

Take a crossbow. 60H, say 10 XP with three promos. Upgrade him to a Gren, 110H (?), so 50h extra, costs you around 150gp. That's barely more than 1GP/H for the final unit, and you're getting one with +7XP compared to the base with-barracks unit. Further, you're getting a unit WHILE you are still building another - meaning you can put out more grens/turn this way than you could just building them.

I certainly don't upgrade every unit, but it is absolutely a good idea in quite a few situations. Ultimately it of course comes to which do you need more - military or science - but unless you've got a map with a ton of hammers and not many beakers, the odds are you are not 100% on the science side of things...

[Garth Vader]

It's especially nice for the City Raider riflemen and grenediers.

[snoopy369]

Oh, indeed. And try playing as Sitting Bull ... mmmmm grens with four to seven first strikes ...

[ayronis]

This is a situation where my early game has a huge impact on whether or not I will use a particular option.

If my units gain any significant amount of experience in the early game, then my military strategy will usually revolve around the maintenance of a field-army composed of units with increasingly higher experience totals. To accomplish this, I will typically keep a surplus treasury and research things a little slower. Even if I am not the tech leader, my field army is almost guaranteed to out-gun the forces of a partially upgraded tech-leader's.

If my units lack early experience, either because of a lack of barbarians or appropriate neighbors, then I tend to disband unnecessary units in order to expedite research and assert a tech lead. This will have a noticeable impact on how I choose to develop my economy; for example, I will prioritize libraries over markets/grocers.

I believe that conscious consideration for the upgrade option is one of the most important (and fun!) elements of the strategy of Civ4.

[wodan11]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Upgrading units is absolutely an optimal strategy in some situations, and in most games.

Take a crossbow. 60H, say 10 XP with three promos. Upgrade him to a Gren, 110H (?), so 50h extra, costs you around 150gp. That's barely more than 1GP/H for the final unit, and you're getting one with +7XP compared to the base with-barracks unit. Further, you're getting a unit WHILE you are still building another - meaning you can put out more grens/turn this way than you could just building them.

I certainly don't upgrade every unit, but it is absolutely a good idea in quite a few situations. Ultimately it of course comes to which do you need more - military or science - but unless you've got a map with a ton of hammers and not many beakers, the odds are you are not 100% on the science side of things...

The only function of hammers is to get you more beakers.

[Blaupanzer]

Hammers do more than get you beakers. Wodan, do you win much? At what level do you play?

[wodan11]

Emperor usually. And yes I do.

What do hammers do besides get you beakers?

[Unimatrix11]

According to beakerism (AKA Wodanomics), the ultimate purpose of everything you do in civ, is to help your research, as your tech-level can be regarded as your overall success in the game.

Personally i think, that this, as most -isms, holds a true core, but certainly has exception to it, such as extreme situations, like, for example, having a very small civ, who really needs the production for defense purposes, or in the final stages of the end-game, when your hammers build the space-ship, and beakers dont matter anymore.

[Tattila the Hun]

How do obsolete promotions affect the calculations? Say, shock and cover, against melee and archers, and everyone has gunpowder or above.

[Theben]

The unit in question still keeps the promotions, but if everyone has gunpowder units they're useless.