Ungrateful AI

[snoopy369]

In MP you can do that

[Blaupanzer]

Snoopy, that's mostly because humans don't have to be programmed, I presume. Getting the code together so the AI would do that and the other AI would respect it (or deliberately violate it, triggering war with the neutral) is a darn sight harder.

[Jaybe]

Blaupanzer, I think you are neglecting a major damage hazard: FIRE. With the only thing to fight it being bucket brigades (and clearing fire lanes).

[Blaupanzer]

No fire from ancient weapons unless conciously added in. Not like cannons, howitzers, et al.

[johnmcd]

Originally posted by Supr49er
Yeah, but a +1 "You assisted us in our struggle" would be nice.

@Wittlich - I always forget I can just move my own units into Mansa's city. I'll have to remember that.

You get a struggle modifier, and 2 mech inf isn't that big a deal. I need to give someone iron for dozens of turns until I get a +1 we appreciate... bonus.

If your units are worth so much, take the city and gift it to him, then you'll get your thanks.

[TriMiro]

Arrows existed from a very early age and they are not picky about who gets killed. Perhaps the collateral damage was smaller in ancient times, but I could imagine it was still something that could cause an international scandal.

Think about the crusaders (a foreign army) passing trough "friendly" Byzantium.

[snoopy369]

The AI doesn't give a significant bonus for giving units because that's an exploit. It's too easy to 'buy' AI happiness if you allow that, like C3 did.

[iamfishhead]

Originally posted by patcon
I would like to see (as I've said in the past) a diplomatic option that would let you make the following request of a third party. "We wish to respect your neutrality in our current war. Stop allowing my enemy to use your territory as a route for attacking me. Close your borders to both of our military units." The only option right now is to ask your neighbor to break off all trade, which might not be a viable option.

In addition to the usual Open Borders, there could also be a limited "Right of Passage" (to bring back an old Civ term) which would allow military units to pass through a neutral civ, but only in a 'disarmed' state. Such a unit would be at half-strength until it has left the neutral civ, and becomes full-strength after moving into a non-neutral tile, where it rearms.

That would be nice. I've always thought it would be nice to have options that let you have finer-grained control of what privileges you have with that civ in different areas, with different levels of each, and with each NOT having to be a bilateral agreement. An example might be (lower level -> higher level):
trade rights-> free trade
right of passage / use of waters / use of airspace -> use of military facilities -> establishment of exclusive military facilities

Where trade rights would give you trade, and free trade would not let you tax trade, but would multiply into to your money in cities someplace else. The UN option that gives you free trade isn't actually free trade! Also as far as military stuff goes, there is a big difference between letting people move through your territory, letting them use your bases, and letting them make their own bases. Oh well ... maybe in Civ 5

[The Priest]

Wow - an avalanche of response to a simple question. It seemed an trivial question because it happens often enough to me.

I have open borders with civ A, who also has open borders with civ B. I am at war with B. Thus A is not involved in the war, but both me and my enemy can cross his land.

Battle then happens in a number of situations:

1. Just the randon. one of my explorers was in civ A's land when war was declared - and civ B sends someone in to kill him.

2. Outflanking. Often the main problem in a war is hot to reach enough of his cities quickly enough. If you each have a border with civ A, you can send an army though civ A's territory to then enter civ B's from the side/rear, capturing cities which woudl take for ever to reach from the front. But of course when i start to do this it is not uncommon to meet civ B's soliders mid-way.

3. Amphibious invasion. How do you invade a distant continent? Its far easier if you can build up your forces on that continent by shipping them to anohter civ on the continent with whom you share an open borders. You build up your forces there and then invade your chosen victim. But during that build up if civ B has any sense he will attack your bridgehead.

So the question remains - if I am in civ A's territory under an open border and civ B who is my enemy but also has open boarder iwth A, attacks me when I am in one of A's cities - do i get the defense bonus? I am not sure how I can test this for certain - i suppose i could set up a scenario in reverse, so i am the attacker, and see what the odds are.

[Wittlich]

Actually, I do not believe that you would be able to attack your enemy while that enemy is stationed in a neutral player's city - unless you also go to war with the neutral player that is...but now that I think about it...I'm really not so sure...

[The Priest]

Oh you definitely can. I had the advance guard of an amphibious invasion destroyed in a foreign city only last night.

[Wittlich]

Ah, thanks for the clarification Priest.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by The Priest
Oh you definitely can. I had the advance guard of an amphibious invasion destroyed in a foreign city only last night.

Just as you can lose an airbase full of aircraft in a neutral city to hostiles, particularly if you don't have any ground troops to protect them.

[TriMiro]

Originally posted by Jaybe

Just as you can lose an airbase full of aircraft in a neutral city to hostiles, particularly if you don't have any ground troops to protect them.

Just as I lost my Galleon in Portuguese city, killed by a Spanish Maceman.

[Blaupanzer]

The Priest, did your forces benefit from the neutral city's defenses? Or were you essentially "out in the open," using the terrain effects of the square without the city effects, even though stationed in a city. I suspect the latter, but do not recall the last time that my troops fought in a neutral city. Plenty of fights in neutral territory however.