Unofficial BtS 3.17 patch

[Solver]

Sounds like you need to spend some time in the strategy section

[Willem]

Originally posted by Solver [*]Rivers running through deserts will result in floodplains

If this is the same routine that was in Bhruic's last patch, it didn't seem to be working very well. I still had Desert rivers with no Floodplains on rivers that originated near my start location. I'm not entirely positive they were placed there, but it sure looked like it. You might want to keep an eye out for this one.

[*]Start location tweaks per SevenSpirits

Well it's an improvement but it still didn't get rid of all the Forest starts in Bhruic's patch. It only added more food resources. And I was also seeing a large number of starts that had Marble in the BFC, far more than I would normally. I'm not sure why that resource in particular would appear so often but you might want to keep an eye on that one too.

[Solver]

I reused code of others for those two, so I can't be fully certain of the results. I generated a bunch of different starts, and I saw improvements on the forestation issue. here are still forests around, but it's now possible to start with a basic grassland tile (no resource, no forest) within your BFC. This is an improvement over 3.17 but I can't promise any more than that

[Willem]

Originally posted by Solver
There are still forests around, but it's now possible to start with a basic grassland tile (no resource, no forest) within your BFC. This is an improvement over 3.17 but I can't promise any more than that

Well if it works like it did in Bhruic's patch, I can live with that. At least I wasn't seeing very many single Cow on a Plains tile starts with it. Sometimes I would even get up to 4 good food resources on an inland location, which evens things out with the kinds of coastal starts the default game gives you at least. You should keep an eye out for the excessive Marble though, if you're using SevenSpirits actual code. I was actually getting kind of annoyed at having it pop up so many times, with sometimes two tiles of it.

[Willem]

Are you sure you've implemented the starting location code correctly? Because I'm not really seeing any difference in my starts than I was with just 3.17. I'm certainly not seeing what I used to get in Bhruic's patch, which I should if you're just rehashing SevenSpirit's code. I ran a number of starts to check it out and not once did I see any more than two food tiles on an inland location. I used to at least sometimes come up with three or four with Bhruic's patch. And I'm still seeing all Forest in my non-resource, non-Floodplain tiles. I only had a couple of starts out of maybe twenty that didn't.

Why don't you just take a look at how thing were done in Warlords and Vanilla? This forest thing didn't happen until BtS came out. The previous two versions provided much more variety in the starting locations, though admittedly some of them were pretty bad. But at least it would provide you with a frame of reference.

[Solver]

Starts have definitely changed. But I haven't applied all of BH's patch code, either, so I'm not sure to what extent the changes should be. Frankly, the map generator is, along with graphics, the part of the code I'm least familiar with, so well... I will probably tweak the start locations further, reusing some more of that code.

[ZEE]

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[Solver]

Learn to use the winzip extraction function , and there isn't Marble at every start.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Solver
Learn to use the winzip extraction function , and there isn't Marble at every start.

No, that part of it is working fine, I haven't seen any more Marble than I usually would. But I've only seen a very marginal improvement in the Forest situation and far less food than I was in Bhruic's patch. However, it does look to me like Firaxis has done something at least to the start locations since I seem to be seeing alot more food at game start than I did pre-3.17. Still not enough though IMO, especially compared to what coastal starts can be like.

[Willem]

Originally posted by AAHZ
but i have noticed coastal starts over 90% of the time as well as if Willem is right about the Marble bug (marble at every start) that would suck too.

That's odd, because I'm seeing just the opposite. Most of my starts are inland. In fact it's fairly rare now for me to get a coastal start, and has been since 3.17 was first released. And I didn't say there was Marble in every start, I only that there was alot more than usual.

[Solver]

I'm still getting most starts coastal, though some are inland. And isn't 2 food resources enough in the BFC for an inland start?

[Willem]

Originally posted by Solver
And isn't 2 food resources enough in the BFC for an inland start?

Not compared to what I was getting in Warlords and vanilla, and not compared to what I'll see with a coastal start. In the previous versions, I would occasionally see up to 4 food tiles, which is also what I was seeing with SevenSpirits code in Bhruic's last patch as well. Quite often I was able to turn my first city into my GP farm. But that's not possible with only two food, one of which is usually fairly crappy. Like a Cow on a Plains tile, or a Deer resource.

And with a coastal start, I will sometimes get 3 or more seafood tiles and maybe a couple of land food resources as well. By only getting two food tiles on an inland start, that could put me at a distinct disadvantage to any civ that starts on the coast. I'm not saying that I should always be getting 4 resources. But it should at least be balanced with a coastal start so that occasionally I'll have food coming out of my ears. As is stands now, I'll quite often have barely enough to work all my BFC tiles, never mind trying to run a specialist or two.

[Solver]

I have always thought that most BtS starts (which would be coastal) are a bit too good. In the last game I started, I got 3 Clams and a Cows source on a plains tile. Those may be a bit too strong as you always get something like that.

But well, I certainly have the issue on my mind and will think about reusing some more of the old 3rd party map generator code.

[Willem]

I certainly don't object if you were to decide to nerf coastal starts in the game. My main concern with the way things are now is that there is such a wide disparity between coastal and inland starts. So you should either improve the inland food availability or reduce the coastal one.

[ZEE]

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