Why windmills?

[NFIH]

I always see people say that they like to windmill all the hills. I don't see the advantage insofar as you lose two hammers on a four-hammer mine (but do gain 1 gold on some hills), so your available production goes down.

Electricity nets an additional 1 gold per windmill, so is that it? At what point in the game should I be going "all windmill"?

[Dauphin]

I tend to use windmills to ensure enough food to sustain the population required to use all the tiles. If it was just an issue of gold, I'd build a cottage (where possible).

[Lord Avalon]

Well, if you're financial, and put a windmill on a river hill, you get the bonus. State Property means +1 from windmills (and watermills).

[snoopy369]

Windmills are useful for some cities to permit some production while not 'costing' a citizen (in food). They are not 'key' improvements, but similarly to a watermill, give you a somewhat useful tile where you otherwise might not be able to use the hill (mined) if you are short of food.

[Willem]

You actually end up with more total resources from Windmills than you do with Mines. With Windmills you get:

+1 Food
+1 Commerce
+1 Commerce (Electricity)
+1 Production (Replaceable Parts)

For a total of 4. But with Mines you get:

+2 Production
+1 Production (Railroad)

For a total of 3. Of course Windmills don't get all their bonuses until later in the game but at that point you get more out of them than you would with Mines.

[snoopy369]

You're equating 1c=1h there, which is patently false, except in a commerce city with lots of multipliers.

[Theben]

Another way of looking at it is 2 windmills=1 more engineer, which will alleviate any loss of from a tile.

As a rule I don't replace any mines with windmills until Replaceable parts, unless I'm desparate for food in that city. At that point I'll replace all my non-resource mines with windmills.

State Property means +1 from windmills (and watermills).

Watermills yes, windmills no. You get +1 food from workshops.

[Hauptman]

After electricity is when I begin my windmilling with 2 exceptions.

No major food source and the city cant work more than a couple mines.

Financial civ. Then all rivered hills get the windmill.

However, noone has mentioned the +2c you get from environmentalism. When every hill you have gives a bag of gold, you tend to see that mines are no longer worth it. You then make up for lost hammers with watermills, workshops and engineers. All the extra commerce can double a cities worth with little effect on hammers.

[Hauptman]

Now if you look at this shot, the only mine is a silver hill. If i were to windmill that I'd loose 1 hammer for 1 food and keep the same commerce. If I didnt need the actual resource, I would have. It's the only silver I have.

The point is, this beeing my unit producing city, I had little intrest in commerce in it, but now, it's a commerce monster. Playing a financial civ or having rivers would give all those windmills that beutiful bag of gold. The uranium mine had previosly been a farm, wich nearly made up for the hammer loss on going from mines to windmills. I could have just workshopped it or left it to gain another engineer later.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Hauptman
However, noone has mentioned the +2c you get from environmentalism. When every hill you have gives a bag of gold, you tend to see that mines are no longer worth it. You then make up for lost hammers with watermills, workshops and engineers. All the extra commerce can double a cities worth with little effect on hammers.

#1
grslnd hill mine+RR=1 , 4
grslnd town(prnt prs)= 2 , 5

#2
grslnd windmill(rep part+elect)=2 , 2 , 2 (or is it 3?)
grslnd workshop(guild+chem)=1 , 3

total #1= 3 , 4 (5 Uni Suff), 5 (7 Free Sp)

total #2= 3 (4 State Prp), 5 (6 Caste), 2/3 (4/5 Envir)

Not sure which is better, depends on what you have available.

[couerdelion]

Originally posted by Hauptman
Now if you look at this shot, the only mine is a silver hill. If i were to windmill that I'd loose 1 hammer for 1 food and keep the same commerce. If I didnt need the actual resource, I would have. It's the only silver I have.

That may not actually be true in many cases. Even if the resource in question is not unique, you can trade it and, being silver, there is every chance that you will find someone who does not have silver.

The straight comparison of tiles values might not tell the whole picture.

For the record, I tend to windmill hills quite early since I can usually find enough production without having to stifle growth with a mine. But with Rep Parts, I’ll be replacing all non-resource mines.

[mkorin]

I hate to be contrary but I almost never use windmills. The extra hammer is way more important than the extra food. Once electricity comes around you have have more than enough money that the extra coin is not worth the loss of the hammer. Production means more armies, more armies mean either better defense or offense depending on your style. Now, if your fat T is only hills, you will need some windmills

Mike

[Garth Vader]

I generally only use windmills if I really need extra food, or just use one to have a city generate an even amount of food.

[wodan11]

To me it depends on the specialization of the city.

If the city is a commerce city in a CE, then the food and commerce are much more important than an extra couple hammers. I'm pop- or cash-buying my cities, and that's it as far as my production is concerned. Commerce is king. Heck, I might even cottage those hills, if they're grass and not plains.

If the city is a production city, then the hammers are much more important than a bit of extra food, unless the city is borderline on food to start with. And I don't care about the commerce.

To me, both windmills and mines, as well as other improvements, are not one-size-fits-all. About the only time I might think so are the games that I'm just going through the motions to have a relaxing game with mental time away from things. But, if that's the case, then an argument can be made for literally anything.

If you're truly trying to maximize the city, then giving a "stock answer" seems to me to be suboptimal in this case. The question wasn't "watermills vs farms" or something, where civ-wide civics have an impact. So, each city will determine what that city gets.

Just me.

Wodan

[Hauptman]

Originally posted by mkorin
I hate to be contrary but I almost never use windmills. The extra hammer is way more important than the extra food. Once electricity comes around you have have more than enough money that the extra coin is not worth the loss of the hammer. Production means more armies, more armies mean either better defense or offense depending on your style. Now, if your fat T is only hills, you will need some windmills

Mike

But your not taking into acount the fact that some things provide more hammers than mines! Under caste system, workshops are better hammer producers. If you have alot of rivers, replace farms and towns with watermils, then windmill your hills and have a hammer/commerce GAIN.