How do you use espionage efficiently?

[AppleTheMan]

I'm new to BTS, and I was wondering if some of you experts could share your espionage strategies. I feel very nervous dedication whole percentages of my commerce to espionage, but then it must have its benefits. Is it possible to play a FULL espionage game where you steal all your techs and most of your money?

Thanks!

[MoonWolf]

To steal techs - should be quite easy in the early game if you get a great spy that you use against an AI.

To steal money - you'd probably have to spend more on espionage that you'd gain from it.

I don't think it will be possible to run a full espionage game. Maybe on the lower levels. For me, it depends a lot on the map type. I hardly play Pangea anymore cause I feel my land will be spammed with AI spies and I have to pay too much resources on counter espionage. I prefer the passive missions like seeing tech they head for and cities. And I sometimes us it to cause revolt, unhappiness or sabotage production.

[MoonWolf]

Welcome to the forums by the way

[Lord Avalon]

Welcome, ATM.

Usually the espionage points you get from buildings are enough. Maybe you might run 10%. I try to build a spy for each city, and possibly for key resources (copper, iron, horses, etc.). Most spies are caught; occasionally some improvements get sabotoaged. Annoying, but they're investing in espionage while you're researching better techs to take them out.

At another forum there was a succession game where they ran a thief economy: after researching some basic techs, they had to steal the rest. No Great Spy bomb, either, IIRC. Quite interesting, though you probably wouldn't want to do that all the time.

[snoopy369]

Usually playing with the esp. slider is not a good idea; however, it certainly is possible for short periods. If you're in a war that you are having trouble with, you can wreck the other guy's economy pretty quickly

Great Spy bombs are the best use, though - build the great wall early on (and no other wonder in that particular city), then use the resultant great spy to generate ESP points against the tech leader (someone likely to stay the tech leader, like Mansa Musa).

Then, steal techs that you don't want to bother researching Cheap and doesn't require you to change your research priorities.

Using a spy to 'incite a revolt' is very effective in an invasion; it will temporarily (for 1 turn) drop the city defense percentage to zero, meaning you don't have to waste time catapulting it down!

Using 'poison wells' or 'foment unhappiness' is effective in reducing an enemy's ability to produce military (or, to produce wonders). Particularly if you have only one real enemy, and can focus all of your generated ESP points towards him; then you will eventually be able to see what his cities are producing, and see if you need to interfere with a particular wonder being produced, or with a military city generating troops.

Also helpful to have enough ESP on the tech leader(s) to see if they're researching key techs (religion tech, liberalism, physics, etc.) - can't tell you how many times i've 'just beat' someone to Liberalism because I could tell how far along they were. (Correlary: Also consider adjusting your tech rate to make it look like you're slower than you are; if you are +0 GPT at 70% tech, do the first part of liberalism (ie) at 50% tech (say, +30gpt) and the last part at 90% tech (-30gpt, or probably a bit less with multipliers). That means at the start of the tech it will appear you are 20 turns to liberalism, when you're really 10 turns away... 6 turns at 50% tech and 4 turns at 90%

[Willem]

Originally posted by AppleTheMan
I'm new to BTS, and I was wondering if some of you experts could share your espionage strategies.

There a few things you can do. For instance when you're attacking a neighbour, send in some spies to the cities you're trying to take and perform the Poison Water and /or the Foment Revolt missions. These will mess up the production capabilities of that city making it harder for the civ to produce a reinforcement. You can also use spies to sabotage spaceship parts if someone has a lead on you. These are very expensive missions though so you'll need to have a lot of Espionage Points against that civ. Also, and the obvious one, send in some spies to sabotage any strategic resources for a civ you're at war with, to prevent him from making the units that can counter you..

[rah]

I just wish there was a worker automation command of REPAIR spy damage. That's the only annoying thing about espionage. It can make the higher level games a tad easier because the AI will used the slider and it's easier to out tech them.

I have had a couple of games where the AI was successful stealing some high end techs, like assembly line and industrialization. Needless to say I was pissed.

[AppleTheMan]

Wow, lots of good ideas! Thanks everyone...
It's starting to make a lot more sense. I perticularly like the idea of being able to see which cities are producing lots of military or wonders, and then focusing on those. Also never thought of using revolt instead of catapults!

BTW... are catapults better than trebuchets for colateral damage?

[snoopy369]

Catapults and Trebs do the same collateral damage, IIRC. Trebs are useful for attacking cities only (+100% to city attack and higher city barrage percent), Catapults are better if you are defending a city or are attacking in the field. I usually don't build many trebs unless I'm going on an assault with late Macemen and Knights (they are relatively quickly obsolete compared to when they are available); often I don't get engineering until right around when I get cannons in any event.

[Supr49er]

An early Spy Economy could work if you built the Great Wall, and got a Great Spy to put in the tech leaders capital. You could probably steal 4 or 5 techs while concentrating on building your military.

But a Spy Economy is definitely not feasible for very long.

[AppleTheMan]

Thanks guys!
The bottom line seems to be not to worry about espionage so much. I do have to say that its a pain in the ass not seeing the demographics anymore unless you have the EPs.

[eris]

Originally posted by AppleTheMan
Thanks guys!
The bottom line seems to be not to worry about espionage so much. I do have to say that its a pain in the ass not seeing the demographics anymore unless you have the EPs.

I know what you mean, but I actually like the feature. It gives a feel to the progress of your espionage. It's like the spots on the minimap lighting up as your espionage allows sight into the cities world wide. And those cities that don't light up are a clue that you need espionage there.

[AppleTheMan]

Towards the end of the game thought I need SOOO much espionage to see city visability... like it's really a lot! I would have to really crank up the espionage to get that, and it seems to really hinder your science if you're going for space race.

[MoonWolf]

I set the slider to 10% the moment I meet someone. It gives me a slight advantage and a bit later in the game, I capture a lot of spies and only a handful AI missions are successful.

[wodan11]

IMO setting the espionage slider is not worth the cost, not even close.

Wodan