How do you counter archery units effectively

[Zero]

If you don't have UU that has +% to archery, or if ur units arent promoted for archery +%?

Wondering why there is no natural counter to archery types. It's not like the combat isn't favored toward defense as it is...

[wodan11]

The game is biased to give players an easier chance to survive in the early game. It's a drag when you get killed real early and then have to sit there and watch your friends continue to play for 4 more hours.

Wodan

[Yaga]

Some units do have a marginal benefit against Archers. The first that comes to mind is Horse Archers -- it's only a tech or two away from Archery, and the 20% withdraw means that while you won't win hands down against an Archer, a good stack of 2-3x the no. of defenders should clear them out.

[Theben]

Any swordsman with City Raider promotions can handle your basic archer in a city. Now if the civ is protective, with walls, and on a hill, you either need to bring more units to the battle (x2-x3 more, and expect losses), or wait until you have construction and catapults.

[snoopy369]

Archery types are the no-counter unit because they are generally weaker. They're primarily there to allow no-resource starts some viability; acrher->longbow lets you survive to gunpowder (where other resources appear, and resources at least for a short while are unneeded). The main counter to archery units is strength; archery units at every level are the weakest unit strength-wise in their level (archer 3, to spear-4 axe-5 sword-6; longbow 6 to pike-6 mace-8 ele-8). The other counter is siege (catapults etc.); archers are vulnerable because of their reduced strength, so they cannot attack out effectively (while a mace-defended city can attack the catapults).

In general, archers are superior defenders, but have so limited attack ability that they are an effectively balanced unit. I am one of the few players I've met in MP that uses archers offensively... and even then it's only at the right situation.

[Supr49er]

One of the reasons that Sitting Bull and the Native Americans are such a tough civ to start next to.

If you play as the Incas, the Quecha gets a nice +100% against Archers.

[Krill]

Snoopy, you should join the ladder and play a few ladder games...

[Zero]

I guess you could say archers and longbows are evened by not too impressive offense, but what about crossbows? even though they dont get defensive bonus they don't seem too bad at it. and their counter attack against melee is great.

built a landschrek + mace stack last game and had a devastating result against friend who defended his camel archers by rushing crossbows at last min. (it took me awhile to march my unit down to his cities and he suspected attack coming) man that game sucked.

im still learning haha.

[Lord Avalon]

Chariots are pretty cheap arrow fodder. Some might survive to get promoted to Flanking II, which means immunity to first strikes.

[Krill]

Crossbows can get beaten by HA if alone, and get slaughtered by knights if out in the open. I like to have a couple promted to CD2 in my front line along with a few CD2 LB. Makes anyone come into attack sit outside my walled (and sometimes Castled) city for a long time While I build up more catapults or an ally comes in to help me kill the stack.

[snoopy369]

Yeah, crossbows are quite potent units against a weak opponent (who builds mostly melee), but aren't very useful against a stronger opponent who uses combined arms. Elephants are their true bane, and Knights later.

[joncnunn]

Re: How do you counter archery units effectively

Originally posted by Zero
If you don't have UU that has +% to archery, or if ur units arent promoted for archery +%?

Wondering why there is no natural counter to archery types. It's not like the combat isn't favored toward defense as it is...

On counters to archer type units, the following are natural ones:

1. Any unit with Flanking II: These are immune to the first strikes that Archers have.

2. Units with City Raider : These have bonsues against everything in the city including archers

3. Units with Cover : This gives a bonus to those units fighting archers.

I also note though that archers themselves have a weak max strength, and become outdated quite rapidly. e.g. Archers tend to be mince meat against either Swords or Horse Archers.

Longbows are tougher, but would still have trouble against properly promoted Macemen.

And the counters to the Crossbow with it's +50% melee bonsus are Knights (and better) & Musketmen (and better).

[Zero]

great advice thanks to all.

I really should use mounted units more in my civ4 games. Used to love using mounted units in civ3, but i find myself using them less for some reasons.

[couerdelion]

And don't forget that Catapults etc work against stacks so end up being strong against large groups of anything. For smaller groups, just use a stronger unit and the archer.

[Virulent]

Trebuchets with a city raider promotion or two tends to work well against Longbows. You can't kill them if you are playing BtS but you can at least soften them up so the rest of your stack can take them out.

Then there are Longbows on a hill city with a couple of City Garrison promotions. Even modern units can have a problem with those.