Apostolic Palace?

[Bkeela]

Prior to getting BtS, I read of people being forced to make peace and other demands, so I made a point of building The Apostolic Palace in the two games I've played so far.

The first game I was going for a culture win, and suffered an annoying and lengthy war - all the time no options came my way. Finally Stalin captured one of my cities, and just as I was moving troops to recapture, I finally get the option to vote for an enforced peace treaty. Too little too late, because I just had to reclaim my city first.

Now I'm playing as Russia, have the Apostolic Palace, but for the entire game I have not had a single option to vote on, except vote myself back into office.

I'm deeply suspicious that things are rigged against me, and that in a game when the AI gets the Palace, I'll have to bow and scrape to ridiculous demands at very regular intervals. What is happening?

[Vampgelus]

The options for AP votes make me wonder too... i think it's so random that it stops making sense. Should be like UN, with a huge amount of options, always available.

[Seedle]

Re: Apostolic Palace?

Originally posted by Bkeela
Finally Stalin captured one of my cities,

That's most likely why the option came up, he now had a city with your religion and was subject to the AP, before he had no city with the religion and could ignore it. Now, why you couldn't vote to have everyone declare on the infidel, I don't know... Were you the only one with the AP religion in that game? Or had you already bribed everyone who shared your religion into the war?
But yeah, I also run into al ot of situations where I don't know why I'm being offered or not being offered a certain AP voting option, it is kinda screwy.
As for the AI always getting good options, maybe it makes decisions while bearing in mind the influence it can wield with the AP. But I don't know if the AI is that sophisticated or not...

[Bkeela]

I was on a continent with Pericles, who was not only the same religion, but also on friendly terms with me. I would have loved to have been able to use the Apostolic Palace to halt Pericles trading with ALL infidels, but I never once got the option.

In my current game, Khmer got into the habit of accumulating a stack of death, going to war, getting nowhere, peace - rinse and repeat. I had my state religion in all of his cities, though he was using another religion for his state, so why couldn't I once get any options concerning the war and other matters?

I made the Khymer pay by the way. He attacked me just as I was amassing an army of cossacks - I wiped out his entire attacking force in a couple of turns, and then unleashed the cossacks on his now near defenseless empire. Suffice to say, the Khmer has been assimilated.

The Apostolic Palace should NOT be a random deal. It should be something the player has control over - maybe every 10 turns or so. And the full suite of available resolutions and demands should be available.

[Tuberski]

Just turn off diplomatic victory, then you never have to wrry about it.

ACK!

[Seedle]

Originally posted by Bkeela
I was on a continent with Pericles, who was not only the same religion, but also on friendly terms with me. I would have loved to have been able to use the Apostolic Palace to halt Pericles trading with ALL infidels, but I never once got the option.

Maybe he wasn't trading with them already? Had he already joined your war? Very odd. Just trying to figure out what's going on, as I said, the AP confuses me too, so getting all the info can help make sense of it, maybe.

In my current game, Khmer got into the habit of accumulating a stack of death, going to war, getting nowhere, peace - rinse and repeat. I had my state religion in all of his cities, though he was using another religion for his state, so why couldn't I once get any options concerning the war and other matters?

Well, if he wasn't the AP religion, and the people he was attacking weren't the AP religion, I don't think it matters if they have it in their cities, at least one party has to be running it as state religion for the AP to get involved. May be wrong though, someone correct me if I am.

I made the Khymer pay by the way. He attacked me just as I was amassing an army of cossacks - I wiped out his entire attacking force in a couple of turns, and then unleashed the cossacks on his now near defenseless empire. Suffice to say, the Khmer has been assimilated.

Good for you! Did you get any AP options here, or did you win too quickly?

The Apostolic Palace should NOT be a random deal. It should be something the player has control over - maybe every 10 turns or so. And the full suite of available resolutions and demands should be available.

It should at least make some sort of sense, even if everything isn't always available.

[Bkeela]

Originally posted by Seedle

Maybe he wasn't trading with them already? Had he already joined your war? Very odd. Just trying to figure out what's going on, as I said, the AP confuses me too, so getting all the info can help make sense of it, maybe.

I don't know what his trading arrangements were, but he hadn't joined in the war against Stalin.

Did you get any AP options here, or did you win too quickly?

Nope.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Tuberski
Just turn off diplomatic victory, then you never have to wrry about it.

ACK!

I would, but I like the +2 hammers per religious building too much.

[Garth Vader]

Originally posted by Theben
I would, but I like the +2 hammers per religious building too much.

Me too, that is an awesome return on investment for building it.

As for resolutions, some games I get a lot of options some games basically none. It depends on who has the AP religion as a state religion, and who doesn't have it in any cities.

[Cartimandua]

Originally posted by Bkeela
The Apostolic Palace should NOT be a random deal. It should be something the player has control over - maybe every 10 turns or so. And the full suite of available resolutions and demands should be available.

I totally agree. The idea for the Apostolic Palace sounded really cool before it came out, but I got a major disappointment when I played it. It must be rigged cause when the AI builds it I get restrictions left and right. However, if I build it absolutely nothing happens. BORING!

If you are in charge of the AP then you should be able to use it at your leisure. I like the idea of being able to use it every 10 turns or so, having that option would make the game a little more exciting and interesting.

[Heraclitus]

I've said It a douzen times both AP and UN should have been done like that SMAC planetary council.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Theben


I would, but I like the +2 hammers per religious building too much.

Is this an undocumented feature? The Civilopedia doesn't mention it.

ACK!

[Bkeela]

At this moment I'm feeling so bitter towards the designers of Beyond the Sword.

I'm now in my third game. This time I don't have the Apostolic Palace. I'm Napoleon, inexplicably stripped of my aggressive trait, and battling to survive wave after wave of Stacks of Death from the bloody Khmer again (I'm starting to hate those bastards).

Previously, Stalin, the most powerful nation - mercifully on the other side of a continent from me, went to war against the Greeks - and on the very same turn - THE VERY SAME TURN - the Apostolic Palace vote was raised to stop the war. It succeeded.

Meanwhile, the Khmer go to war against me - a nation of the same religion as theirs - the religion of the Palace, and the silence is deafening. Wave after wave my defending city must endure. I was trying to scrape together the foundation for a cultural victory, but that of course had to be postponed as every city I owned pumped out newly acquired Musketeers.

I check my other neighbour, the Koreans, who are so ridiculously ahead in technology I almost lose heart and quit the game, and am astonished to find they will agree to war against the Khymer for Liberalism (the only tech they don't have for some strange reason).

Guess what? First turn after the Koreans declare war...the Apostolic Palace raises a vote to stop the war. I save and quit in disgust and come straight here to vent. I'm not looking forward to resuming the game.

[wodan11]

Originally posted by Bkeela
Guess what? First turn after the Koreans declare war...the Apostolic Palace raises a vote to stop the war. I save and quit in disgust and come straight here to vent. I'm not looking forward to resuming the game.

What's the problem? I thought you WANTED the war to be stopped.

Wodan

[NFIH]

Originally posted by wodan11

What's the problem? I thought you WANTED the war to be stopped.

Wodan

I think he meant he thought he'd be able to stick it to the Khmer with the Koreans joining in to fight them. But then that ,too, got squashed.

I'm still of the sneaking suspicion that while the other AIs are nominally against each other, there's some higher level code in the game that in fact causes them to all band together against the human player without actually declaring alliances. ...