Assigning specialists early on...

[guermantes]

Hi all,

I can 50/50 win BTS on Prince when I play normal speed, large or huge maps. My playing style is more towards the builder side of the spectrum than the military steamroller. Although, of course, I am not aversed to war in any way.

But one thing I have never got the hang of is assigning early specialists (by which I mean anytime during the first 250 turns of the game).

I guess my problem is that I am too afraid to give up the food that can be used to grow, or not working that cottage and develop it into a town as soon as possible, or not working that mine in order to get that axeman out to maintain parity with the other civs. I simply never see it as a good choice since I always have more pressing needs that I believe would become more distant if I assigned a specialist. (I have never been good at the art of counting hammers/beakers/commerce for more than a few turns forward).

So my question is: Do you have some criteria for when you assign specialists early on in the game? When is it worth it? And for what reasons do you use early specialists? Is is mainly for 'slingshot gambits'?

Thanks for all points of view.

[Garth Vader]

I did it recently, but that was because I had tons of food, and a happy cap of 4 or 5. It was a nice way to keep up tech, and get me a Great Scientist until I could raise my happy cap.

[TriMiro]

Depending on the economy you plan on building, some times specialists are assigned as soon as the city gets +3 food.

There is pretty good tutorial on specialist economy:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=197818

I was underestimating the early specialists until I played the above strategy with Pericles. The advantage of several early scientists is much more than that extra axeman or that extra cottage.

[wodan11]

1) Criteria are determined by two things:
1a) What GP I want in that game. I might want a prophet or two for shrines. I might want an engineer to pop the pyramids. I might want a scientist to lightbulb Philosophy.
1b) If I want to run a SE (but this is not what you're talking about... sounds like you always run a CE).

2) It's always worth it to run specialists in at least one city. Your first GP or two is KEY. What you do with them can have a huge impact on your game.

3) See above

4) See above.

Hope this helps.

Wodan

[snoopy369]

My criteria:
Do I have a city with more food than it needs, and do I need more commerce?

If so, then specialize away

Most of the time, most of my cities fall in this range (as I settle high food producers as much as possible). Only high hammer producers don't.

When you're in the 'happy cap' era (pre-monarchy for sure, often it extends past that especially if you're running representation), unless you are running slavery food is not worth very much once you hit (near) happy cap. So, grow up to the happy cap (or near to it), and then change to specialists with your last 2 pop.

[Jaybe]

For me, early scientist specialists are usually REQUIRED, because expanded city maintenance costs have depleted my science %. Get that library built, then set at LEAST one specialist.

[wodan11]

Originally posted by snoopy369
My criteria:
Do I have a city with more food than it needs, and do I need more commerce?

If so, then specialize away

Most of the time, most of my cities fall in this range (as I settle high food producers as much as possible). Only high hammer producers don't.

When you're in the 'happy cap' era (pre-monarchy for sure, often it extends past that especially if you're running representation), unless you are running slavery food is not worth very much once you hit (near) happy cap. So, grow up to the happy cap (or near to it), and then change to specialists with your last 2 pop.

Snoopy, doesn't all that apply to working cottages as well? Nothing there that is particular to specialists.

Wodan

[Theben]

Set scientists with libraries, an engineer with the forge (to get more wonders, I admit I'm a wonder whore) and with caste system I'll set some merchants to keep my economy afloat while I expand.
Merchants with the Pyramid are really nice, as they give +3 money and science apiece.

And obviously you can't get Great People w/o specialists, unless you have a lot of wonders.

[Supr49er]

Originally posted by Theben
Set scientists with libraries, an engineer with the forge (to get more wonders...

Exactly what I do. Get two Scientist Specialists as soon as I buils a library and add an Engineer Specialist with the forge. I will always use these two great people early.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by wodan11

Snoopy, doesn't all that apply to working cottages as well? Nothing there that is particular to specialists.

Wodan

Specialists give substantially more science than cottages early on, so they are the superior choice at that stage if you have excess food. If you don't have excess food, cottages are of course superior (as they give 2f2-3c).

Science specialists give, in the early (just post writing) game, 3c+3/100*(~1000)c, which is quite substantial. That number obviously goes (dramatically) down, from 33c/t until your first GP to 18c/t for the second GP to 13c/t for the third GP; but these numbers are all still much more than any cottage gives (and don't forget about Philo, Representation if you got the pyramids, etc.); but so long as you can lightbulb a strong tech, it's worth quite a bit.

Even if you don't lightbulb (or don't follow a path that gives sci specialists a substantial tech to research), the bonus from a sci super specialist or an academy is quite substantial in the longer run (not as substantial in the shorter run of course). Cottages are better because of the food+commerce combination, but in the period where food is worthless (happy cap) it is better to use specialists.

[wodan11]

I agree on the face of it... but have to ask, how did the city get the extra food? Probably by working a rice or something, right? Once the city is at the cap and is no longer whipping (which is the situation we're talking about), isn't it often better to work 2 cottages instead of rice + specialist?

Wodan

[Crossfire]

I play at Emperor or Immortal and if I want more than 4 cities I need to get some science somewhere and specialists are the only way to keep up. Often my science is down to 10 or 20 percent before I get CoL and Currency but with a couple specialists in my capitol and at least one in most of my other cities I can almost keep up in tech. If I can get the Pyramids then I can be ahead in tech by the time I get Liberalism.

[rah]

all depends on your goals.

[Hauptman]

As soon as I build my first library, I set 2 scientists to get that GS asap. Early enough in the game there isnt much else to do anyways. Then plop that GS in the cap for the +50% academy.

Exceptions of course, are my oracle-> code of laws games, where I dont even need the libraries. And I can speed it up by setting 3+ scientists. Then work tiles so the second is a GP.